Worst key machine

[thecrazylockkid]

What's the worst key machine that you have ever used?

[cledry]

What's the worst key machine that you have ever used?

Would have to to be Foley Belsaw machine or HPC Speedex. We occasionally buy out other lock shops or buy locksmith lots, and even sometimes we get someone walk in and sell a machine. If we get a Belsaw machine it sells for $50, a Speedex $125-$150. We get more for the little Mini Mite machines and ancient Dominion machines!

[TORCH [of KCK]]

I too would have to say, my Foley Belsaw machine. As it has a slightly warped guide shaft, and I have to adjust the micrometer depending on the hight of the key blank being cut.

[RedE]

Axxess+ automatic duplicator.

[Ralph_Goodman]

Never liked any of the punch machines that I have used.

Just a lot of work. Not very intuitive (in my opinion). And with the ones I have used, the blades are always so dull!

[tpark]

My sense is that if you had a very good punch machine and had many keys to process, a punch would be the way to go. My main complaint with some punches is that they can't handle some key shapes and that on some machines the cuts aren't as accurate as what you can get on a good wheel code cutting machine.
I have an A1 Pak A Punch, and it works OK for some Schlage keys, but I have accuracy issues with cutting A2 SFIC on Jet blanks. Maybe it works better on BEST blanks, but I haven't figured out how to cut in-spec SFIC keys on Jet blanks. The Schlage "C" keys don't clamp up properly, but with a small cardboard shim, I got it to work reliably. Your mileage may vary.

[thecrazylockkid]

What's the worst key machine that you have ever used?

Would have to to be Foley Belsaw machine or HPC Speedex. We occasionally buy out other lock shops or buy locksmith lots, and even sometimes we get someone walk in and sell a machine. If we get a Belsaw machine it sells for $50, a Speedex $125-$150. We get more for the little Mini Mite machines and ancient Dominion machines!

What do you hate most about the speedex? Is it just the entire speedex line that you didn't like or is it just the mini speedex?


Thanks

[cledry]

What's the worst key machine that you have ever used?

Would have to to be Foley Belsaw machine or HPC Speedex. We occasionally buy out other lock shops or buy locksmith lots, and even sometimes we get someone walk in and sell a machine. If we get a Belsaw machine it sells for $50, a Speedex $125-$150. We get more for the little Mini Mite machines and ancient Dominion machines!

What do you hate most about the speedex? Is it just the entire speedex line that you didn't like or is it just the mini speedex?


Thanks

All of them, they just have crappy jaws and the tolerances aren't good enough IMO. They never feel smooth. For the money the Rytan is a far better machine, plus has wider jaw spacing.. They might be fine for a hobbyist or a locksmith that has time to deal with the machine's quirks.

Generally the things I look for in a machine are speed, then jaws (none better than the Bravo III), bearings and bushings, again the Bravo line is right up there, a big carbide cutter, many machines to choose from Bravo, Rytan, Borkey, Bianchi ... lastly a good motor, this is not a washing machine motor. Bonuses are a light, safety switches on the shoulder stops, micrometer adjustable copy dogs.

[jimu57]

I have 2 mini mites. I had Gilray sharpen my 23RF cutters with flat instead of the original radius. Cuts and duplicates great. I can make an original with depth and space keys within .002/.003 of spec. Had a Foley Belsaw. Junk.

jimu57

[Sinifar]

Well I suppose I should not stick this in here, but what the HEY!!

In defense of the Foley - it is a very light machine, and you can't horse the thing and you need to remember, like Dremel, a little bit at a time and it works fine.

I have one out in the truck, on the road as it was, to cut a lot of stuff my HPC punch or other gear won't. Makes wonderful keys as first key and good duplicates as well, just take it slow, easy, and remember don't force anything.

If you can use a Framon, you can use a Foley. just be sure you took the time to set the thing up right and as I say, take it easy. this isn't a race and you won't get a prize for cutting the fastest key.

IF you are going to make "first keys" or cut by code on a Foley, cut your depth and spacer key on a Framon and get it exact. I made up a set of over 75 keys for mine and there isn't many keys I can't make with it. Well high security keys - but in the main I need to bring those back here to cut either on the Framon or the 339.

It also makes a nice flat key like for safe deposit when you need one for an inner safe door and got asked for one. Again, take your time it isn't going to whiz thru a safe deposit blank - it will take time, but it will make a nice key, which WORKS.

Foe what it is worth, I have made up system 70 key systems on it out in the field when i got surprised and did not know that it was required - tons of mail box originals, and a lot of Yale and Lockwood in the field. it just takes practice and a little time.

Your mileage may vary -- all i know is for 50 years i have been using this thing on the road and it has bailed me out more than it let me down.

Sinifar

[cledry]

Depends if time is money or not. If you are a hobbyist, part timer or institutional locksmith, or perhaps in a slow market. However we got a job approved this morning at 10 AM, master key @69 locks, with @ 300 keys at a local Christian school. We cut the keys, and managed to master key 45 locks before 5PM. We started cutting keys at 1 PM! Try that with a mini mite or a Belsaw.

Also because we got the exterior of the buildings master keyed before closing today and impressed the customer, we also made a sale of 60 Grade 1 Falcon locks and the installation and keying of said locks for the classrooms.

Less time = more money and fast accurate machines is a major part of that equation.

[Sinifar]

We have done that too! My wife, ALOA 7819 was upstairs cutting key on the HPC punch, and I was down in the shop cutting keys on the Framon. Yup we can turn out a lot of keys around here too!

The issue with the Foley is not that it is slow, but it doesn't produce keys very well. I would not use that to make up a MK system or a large order. Like i said it is out in the truck where the HPC punch lives and works every day. For the odd key which needs to be cut in a rotary machine it works well. How may times have you gone out on a job expecting the rekey to be Schlage, Kwikset or Weiser and got surprised by something else? NOW WHAT?

Haul the Foley off the back of the rack and start cutting. It doesn't happen very often but when it does there is nothing else out on the road to fix the problem.

AND I am not going to Memorial Mall in Sheboygan to rekey another Corbin Russwin LFIC in D4 again without knowing what I was walking into. That call was for a rekey of IC locks, and nobody said thing one about Emhart LFIC .... Surprise!

As I said, you mileage may vary, and you do what your shop needs to do. ME? I have tons of keying equipment around here including a Curtis #9 we bought in 1974 new. Still down here still making all the keys like cylinder, flat, bit and barrel with no problems.

Just i get tired of people kicking a machine around they know little about, or worse never tried to get to work right. A little quality time with a Foley and you would be surprised what you can produce. Okay one at a time and it takes time. But i am sitting on the job site and was asked for something else -- you produce a safe deposit key on site without knowing it was coming your way! Remember those are also used for many inner safe doors and quite a few drop safes.

Not to pick, but to quantify.

Sinifar

---> Side bar -- when we used to have the really big Ford E350 tanks, we carried a Framon with us on the road and quite a few other machines like an HPC Speedex which I still have and still use down here. With a Rediline powering the mobile shop 25 amps of smooth sine power was available to run anything. Today I am in a Transit Connect, and space is at a premium. Use what you have room for.

SS

[adi_picker]

Any of the cheap chinese ones. Bought one for $150 AUD new, everything on the unit flexed, including the copy dog and carrier. S l o w and steady or not at all. Multiple sever electrocution hazards, all wiring twiste together under body and sheathed with cheap plastic tube, no glue, and covered with 5mm carboard sheet. Flexible shaft light with no reflector and exposed contacts on switch! Sold it for what I paid, after I had removed the electocution hazards..

adi_picker

[billdeserthills]

Actually I have a couple of Speedex machines, the 9120 DC and the 9160 AC and both work fine for my business
Don't believe the part in the instructions that tells you these machines don't need oil--That is a complete lie

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Never liked any of the punch machines that I have used.

Just a lot of work. Not very intuitive (in my opinion). And with the ones I have used, the blades are always so dull!

I love punches. A lot less can go wrong and they're cheaper to service and/or replace. near indestructible too. Punches are the diesel engines of code cutters.

Might be an issue with quality? I didn't know that BEST original punches came with a 4 sided cutting punch. At the hospital I worked at our punch machine still worked but it had seen better days. BEST rep told me I could just rotate it. The punch had chewed through thousands and thousands of keys since 1979 (the date of manufacture) and not once was it rotated. Still had 3 perfectly sharp sides. I rotated it and it cut through the keys like butter.