Lock Picking 101 Forum
A community dedicated to the fun and ethical hobby of lock picking.
       

Lock Picking 101 Home
Login
Profile
Members
Forum Rules
Frequent Forum Questions
SEARCH
View New Posts
View Active Topics


Live Chat on Discord
LP101 Forum Chat
Keypicking Forum Chat
Reddit r/lockpicking Chat



Learn How to Pick Locks
FAQs & General Questions
Got Beginner Questions?
Pick-Fu [Intermediate Level]


Ask a Locksmith
This Old Lock
This Old Safe
What Lock Should I Buy?



Hardware
Locks
Lock Patents
Lock Picks
Lock Bumping
Lock Impressioning
Lock Pick Guns, Snappers
European Locks & Picks
The Machine Shop
The Open Source Lock
Handcuffs


Member Spotlight
Member Introductions
Member Lock Collections
Member Social Media


Off Topic
General Chatter
Other Puzzles


Locksmith Business Info
Training & Licensing
Running a Business
Keyways & Key Blanks
Key Machines
Master Keyed Systems
Closers and Crash Bars
Life Safety Compliance
Electronic Locks & Access
Locksmith Supplies
Locksmith Lounge


Buy Sell Trade
Buy - Sell - Trade
It came from Ebay!


Advanced Topics
Membership Information
Special Access Required:
High Security Locks
Vending Locks
Advanced Lock Pick Tools
Bypass Techniques
Safes & Safe Locks
Automotive Entry & Tools
Advanced Buy/Sell/Trade


Locksport Groups
Locksport Local
Chapter President's Office
Locksport Board Room
 

Code cutting w/ a Foley Belsaw 200 without space micrometer

Got a question about key machines? not sure what to buy? need a user manual? have some tips for keeping one running well or need help cutting or programming keys? Post here!

Code cutting w/ a Foley Belsaw 200 without space micrometer

Postby Jacob Morgan » 19 Aug 2017 14:50

Was interesting in being able to cut by code with my used Foley-Belsaw 200, but did not want to sink hundreds of dollars into the direct read depth and space micrometer attachments that Foley-Belsaw sells (for now anyway). It occurred to me that I had a good pair of digital calipers that could set depths and spaces all day if there was something to measure against. There were good reference points to measure against on the depth adjustment, but not for the space adjustment. The frame and carriage are castings and do not have good square surfaces to measure against for the space adjustment. There was not a good way to lock in the space adjustment either. As luck would it, had a few 5/8" shaft collars in the junk box.

Removed the carriage by loosening the two set screws in the frame and removed the 5/8" shaft. Reinstalled it after putting two shaft collars to the right of the carriage and one to the left.

The depth would be set by first establishing a baseline against a blank key. The gap between the rear end of the tracing tip and the shoulder of the micrometer was measured, the red lines below shows the measurement to take.

Image

The photo below is the actual measurement on my machine for an Ilco SC1. The keyblank should be up against the blade and tracer. The photo does not show that because I do not have three hands.

Image

Next the space would be set by establishing a baseline. The right-most collar is tightened down next to the frame. Its only purpose is to have a good perpendicular plane to measure against. The idea is to set the spaces by adjusting the other two shaft collars to the left.

Image

Another bad photo, the end of the caliper is against the other shaft collar. This measurement is the baseline of the first shaft collar to the second one when the butting wheel
(and tracer) just touches the shoulder of the key.

Image

The key blank's height is measured.

Image

Here are the calculations. For the space, I guessed at off-setting the first shaft collar to the right by a few hundredths of an inch (the 50% of width). The space and depth data was from the back of the FB200 handbook, but they are on-line also.

Image

The first depth is set by turning the micrometer adjustment until the right caliper reading is given. The depth micrometer on my machine has markings that are not distinct and I can read machinist micrometers just fine, but can not see the lines on the Foley-Belsaw one.

Then the space is adjusted. The second shaft collar from the right is set, then to save time the third shaft collar (from the right, i.e., the one on the left of the carriage) is set by slipping a washer that is about 0.1" thick between the left side of the carriage and the shaft collar.

Image

For each cut the space and depth was adjusted. I ended up replacing the set screw on the second shaft collar with a thumb screw to make adjusting things faster. Make sure and use the code (V-shaped) cutting wheel. Cut between the two shaft collars.

Anyway, five cuts later and the key worked.

Image

Probably faster to use space and depth keys, but would be handy for keys for which one does not have space and depth keys. A few hints if anyone else wants to try it:

1. I had two different brands of 5/8" shaft collars and one fit better than the other. If they are badly over-sized and are cockeyed when tightened that will not help anything as it will be hard to have consistent measurements. But, the spaces are much less critical than depths unless the spaces actually start running into each other.

2. Probably the shaft will be roughened up eventually after set screws are tightened up against it many times.

3. If possible use a longer key-blank than needed for the tracer (to the right). I should have used an SC4 instead of an SC1. The last cut tried to veer off at the very left of it as the key blank under the tracer ran out of metal as the extreme left of the last cut was made.

4. Loosen the two left shaft collars and the key machine can be used to duplicate like usual.
Jacob Morgan
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 571
Joined: 30 Dec 2015 21:31
Location: KY (north west)

Re: Code cutting w/ a Foley Belsaw 200 without space microme

Postby demux » 21 Aug 2017 8:58

Jacob Morgan wrote:2. Probably the shaft will be roughened up eventually after set screws are tightened up against it many times.


Jacob, I actually did this same mod to my FB200 a few years ago, I used split shaft collars (e.g. like https://www.grainger.com/product/29NX82 ... 21135551:s) to get around that problem. That also helps with any slight size variations in the collars themselves, as you can just look for one that's slightly smaller and clamp it down tight.
demux
 
Posts: 519
Joined: 27 Apr 2017 11:14
Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Code cutting w/ a Foley Belsaw 200 without space microme

Postby Jacob Morgan » 21 Aug 2017 12:57

Demux,

Thanks for the tip. Next time I order from an industrial supply house I'll get a couple of them. Last weekend I was just working with what I had in my junk box.

I know that the FB 200 isn't industrial-strength, but being able to cut flat keys and being able to cut by code with common household items, in addition to cylinder key duplication, makes for nice hobby machine. Presumably Foley-Belsaw will sell off the last batch of them and then that will be that.


Cutting your first key by code, and it actually working, is a memorable occasion, to me at least. Now I'll have to go and subscribe to a key code site. That and save up for a real code machine.
Jacob Morgan
Supporter
Supporter
 
Posts: 571
Joined: 30 Dec 2015 21:31
Location: KY (north west)


Return to Key Machines & Programmers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest