suggest security improvements to business owner

[globallockytoo]

if you are on a job, then it can be worthwile to you to make suggestions.

Especially when you see double cylinder locks on primary entrances or doors with an exit sign above. I believe it is your duty to explain why they need to change to a tumbutton inside.
You need to inform them that double cylinders on primary entrance doors are illegal. Besides being illegal, how does one exit in case of an emergency? If they were to get broken into by a burglar and a fire or other potentially life threatening incident were to occur and the burglar got injured or killed, the building tenant, owner and sometimes the installer can be charged with negligent homicide by authorities. Insurance companies look for any reason to deny any claim. If you do not comply with the law or building code, the insurance company has the right to deny your claim. Is it worth it for the paltry cost of a turnbutton?

With double cylinder deadbolts, sometimes I recommend that the customer simply embed a key on the inside so it cannot be withdrawn. It is very simple to create the embedded key and often will get you a couple of extra dollars on the job.

Never file pins. You are a locksmith not a butcher, right?

[GWiens2001]

if you are on a job, then it can be worthwile to you to make suggestions.

Especially when you see double cylinder locks on primary entrances or doors with an exit sign above. I believe it is your duty to explain why they need to change to a tumbutton inside.
You need to inform them that double cylinders on primary entrance doors are illegal. Besides being illegal, how does one exit in case of an emergency? If they were to get broken into by a burglar and a fire or other potentially life threatening incident were to occur and the burglar got injured or killed, the building tenant, owner and sometimes the installer can be charged with negligent homicide by authorities. Insurance companies look for any reason to deny any claim. If you do not comply with the law or building code, the insurance company has the right to deny your claim. Is it worth it for the paltry cost of a turnbutton?

With double cylinder deadbolts, sometimes I recommend that the customer simply embed a key on the inside so it cannot be withdrawn. It is very simple to create the embedded key and often will get you a couple of extra dollars on the job.

Never file pins. You are a locksmith not a butcher, right?

Agree with most of what you say. Except the final line. Yes, if you have the pins, go for it. If not, then it is time for real locksmithing.

[GWiens2001]

if you are on a job, then it can be worthwile to you to make suggestions.

Especially when you see double cylinder locks on primary entrances or doors with an exit sign above. I believe it is your duty to explain why they need to change to a tumbutton inside.
You need to inform them that double cylinders on primary entrance doors are illegal. Besides being illegal, how does one exit in case of an emergency? If they were to get broken into by a burglar and a fire or other potentially life threatening incident were to occur and the burglar got injured or killed, the building tenant, owner and sometimes the installer can be charged with negligent homicide by authorities. Insurance companies look for any reason to deny any claim. If you do not comply with the law or building code, the insurance company has the right to deny your claim. Is it worth it for the paltry cost of a turnbutton?

With double cylinder deadbolts, sometimes I recommend that the customer simply embed a key on the inside so it cannot be withdrawn. It is very simple to create the embedded key and often will get you a couple of extra dollars on the job.

Never file pins. You are a locksmith not a butcher, right?

Agree with most of what you say. Except the final line. Yes, if you have the pins, go for it. If not, then it is time for real locksmithing.

Gordon

[billdeserthills]

if you are on a job, then it can be worthwile to you to make suggestions.

Especially when you see double cylinder locks on primary entrances or doors with an exit sign above. I believe it is your duty to explain why they need to change to a tumbutton inside.
You need to inform them that double cylinders on primary entrance doors are illegal. Besides being illegal, how does one exit in case of an emergency?

I made over $100 installing a double cylinder deadbolt on a primary entrance today!
Not illegal in my state I even used a couple of one-way screws

[globallockytoo]

if you are on a job, then it can be worthwile to you to make suggestions.

Especially when you see double cylinder locks on primary entrances or doors with an exit sign above. I believe it is your duty to explain why they need to change to a tumbutton inside.
You need to inform them that double cylinders on primary entrance doors are illegal. Besides being illegal, how does one exit in case of an emergency?

I made over $100 installing a double cylinder deadbolt on a primary entrance today!
Not illegal in my state I even used a couple of one-way screws

I beg to differ with you Bill.

It is illegal in every state in USA. All states signed on to the International Building Code. Certain individual localities may have their own interpretations, but essentially you will find that the local Authority having Jurisdiction (AHJ) will be the only person who can authorize in writing a abstention from the law.

The local AHJ is often the fire marshal or the local building inspector.

[billdeserthills]

if you are on a job, then it can be worthwile to you to make suggestions.

Especially when you see double cylinder locks on primary entrances or doors with an exit sign above. I believe it is your duty to explain why they need to change to a tumbutton inside.
You need to inform them that double cylinders on primary entrance doors are illegal. Besides being illegal, how does one exit in case of an emergency?

I made over $100 installing a double cylinder deadbolt on a primary entrance today!
Not illegal in my state I even used a couple of one-way screws

I beg to differ with you Bill.

It is illegal in every state in USA. All states signed on to the International Building Code. Certain individual localities may have their own interpretations, but essentially you will find that the local Authority having Jurisdiction (AHJ) will be the only person who can authorize in writing a abstention from the law.

The local AHJ is often the fire marshal or the local building inspector.

So when will these evil double deadbolts quit being manufactured & sold?

[victorylocksmith]

if the double deadbolts are illegal, why do they keep selling these locks?

[1mrchristopher]

It isn't that the double deadbolts are illegal, it is that it is illegal to have them installed on primary entrances. At least that is my feeble (and very recent) understanding of it.

[victorylocksmith]

what about this plug holder business, how much do these things cost and where do i get them cheap? i could see the use of having one to work on an icore lock but is it really necessary for a simple rekey? seems like more unnecessary tools that eat up space and money.

[GWiens2001]

Get an IC mortise housing and cut off the top third. Place it in your vice, and voila! Instant plug holder for IC cores. You can even test the control key!

Get Master Lock lock cylinder, cut off the bottom third. Use your vice to hold the bible (leaving the cut side up), and voila! Instant plug holder for Master and American locks.

Get a KIK cylinder for any standard diameter core, cut off the bottom third. Use your vice to hold the bible as above, and ... Well, you get the idea.

Cheap and effective.

Gordon

[victorylocksmith]

Get an IC mortise housing and cut off the top third. Place it in your vice, and voila! Instant plug holder for IC cores. You can even test the control key!

Get Master Lock lock cylinder, cut off the bottom third. Use your vice to hold the bible (leaving the cut side up), and voila! Instant plug holder for Master and American locks.

Get a KIK cylinder for any standard diameter core, cut off the bottom third. Use your vice to hold the bible as above, and ... Well, you get the idea.

Cheap and effective.

Gordon

thanks gordon but, i dont even have a vice. 100% of the work is mobile locksmith based and in the field. i never work inside my van because, it is not a true work van. i actually just jimmy rigged up some storage space in the back of my minivan, so i dont even have a table. most of the work i do is, outside the properly, laid up on ground

[globallockytoo]

It isn't that the double deadbolts are illegal, it is that it is illegal to have them installed on primary entrances. At least that is my feeble (and very recent) understanding of it.

precisely...

Double cylinder deadbolts are completely legal as long as they are not installed to primary entrances....or in the case of a commercial premise, on any fire door or door with an exit sign above.
The only way to have a double cylinder installed legally on any primary door is to have an exemption signed by the local AHJ. A very ,very, very rare feat. Insurance companies cannot force you, because they know it is illegal. Police who suggest double cylinders are imbeciles. Hardware store shop assistants......really???

It's all about life safety. Security must take a back seat to life safety anywhere.

It is very easy to enjoy the "perceived" benefits of a double cylinder lock without having a double cylinder lock. Most people want double cylinder because there is glass in or next to the door in question. Recommend clear window security film. It is usually about $60 per square foot installed but it prevents the window from being smashed. If you are worried about door frame weakness, even a double cylinder deadbolt wont help you....use a door frame strengthener.

Dont be fooled by people who want to sell you something you dont need, cannot use or live with. Life is way more important than being secure, no?

[billdeserthills]

Thanks for the knowledge, thankfully I am covered by a 2 mil liability policy accause here at Anarchy Locksmith the customer's request trumps the law.

[dll932]

Thanks for the knowledge, thankfully I am covered by a 2 mil liability policy accause here at Anarchy Locksmith the customer's request trumps the law.

If you put a double where it shouldn't be in a multiunit dwelling or a semipublic place and a fire marshal comes in and says take it out, you will have one unhappy customer. I have refused requests when they collide with the law and explained why to the customer.

Where possible I figure out an alternative. WRT glass in or next to the door, I usually suggest applying plexi over the glass on the inside. If appearance is important, picture frame molding can be put over the edges and painted.

[billdeserthills]

Thanks for the knowledge, thankfully I am covered by a 2 mil liability policy accause here at Anarchy Locksmith the customer's request trumps the law.

If you put a double where it shouldn't be in a multiunit dwelling or a semipublic place and a fire marshal comes in and says take it out, you will have one unhappy customer. I have refused requests when they collide with the law and explained why to the customer.

Where possible I figure out an alternative. WRT glass in or next to the door, I usually suggest applying plexi over the glass on the inside. If appearance is important, picture frame molding can be put over the edges and painted.

The Fire Marshals around here are too scarce for anything but commercial properties