SAVTA vs. NSO

[KPick]

I think the information disclosed in this thread sort of makes it destructive entry. The cheesehole method can be used in safe opening. Just saying

[billdeserthills]

I think the information disclosed in this thread sort of makes it destructive entry. The cheesehole method can be used in safe opening. Just saying

I disagree, because whenever I open a safe I make sure the hole I drilled is recovered by a new dial ring and dial. I also like to weld a ball bearing or some carbide in the hole as well. At the very least I will bash a taper-pin into the hole, before installing a new dial ring cover over the repair. In the beginning, lacking the books I have today, I did sometimes find the need to drill several holes into a safe to get it open. This doesn't mean anyone with a drill can open a safe, I don't care if you drill 100 holes. Also when I got done, I would remove the door and take it down to the welder, next stop was some body work & a new paint job in my shop.

I will say one nice thing about the NSO is you can always e-mail Dave McOmie a question & he has always been good about responding, but mainly when I'm working on a safe, I'm all by myself, just like any other safe tech.

[2octops]

I think the information disclosed in this thread sort of makes it destructive entry. The cheesehole method can be used in safe opening. Just saying

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Very few safes are opened without poking a hole in them somewhere.

[KPick]

I think the information disclosed in this thread sort of makes it destructive entry. The cheesehole method can be used in safe opening. Just saying

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Very few safes are opened without poking a hole in them somewhere.

Well if you guys don't think so, then I guess it's not. No use in conflict. I submit. It's not!

[billdeserthills]

I think the information disclosed in this thread sort of makes it destructive entry. The cheesehole method can be used in safe opening. Just saying

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Very few safes are opened without poking a hole in them somewhere.

Well if you guys don't think so, then I guess it's not. No use in conflict. I submit. It's not!

Trust me, everytime I say something that the powers that be think should be in advanced I get a PM and my posting is either moved away or parts are deleted. It has happened plenty of times already.

[CMS_SAFECRAKR1]

NSO is an excellent stepping stone into the safe trade and will give you credentials needed to be allowed to join more "secure" groups like SAVTA. I joined NSO and got my free books and learned so much. I also took advantage of the industry recognized testing put forth by Dave Mcomie and the NSO organization. Three levels can be obtained. RST (registered Safe Technician) CJS (certified journeyman Safecracker) or the CMS (certified master Safecracker).

Dave Mcomie is the Authority on safe opening technique and publications, you can bank on his information and books that your getting the best knowledge money can provide.

Don Myers CMS

[billdeserthills]

Can't anyone make Dave's hair stop falling out?

[CMS_SAFECRAKR1]

Have not seen him in a while, how bad must it be getting? The mans gonna need a hair piece.

[billdeserthills]

Have not seen him in a while, how bad must it be getting? The mans gonna need a hair piece.

He fluffs it up pretty good, so it's mostly just receding
Nevertheless Dave McOmie is still the man!

[Sinifar]

IF I can add my 2 cents worth -- safe deposit locks are pretty much a closed shop. Banks contract with some shop / person to do their work and rarely call any outsider to do the work. The boxes I have pulled and reworked are for people who have one of those inside their safes, closing off a door to some inner compartment. The other boxes I have done is for a couple of hotels who have safe deposit nests for the "hotel safe". These get a pounding and in time they need to have them serviced, and rekeyed. Bank work is normally contracted out and if you get a call it will be extremely rare.

Rekeying a safe deposit box is like any other lever lock. One needs to be exact, the Framon 2 has a full set of cutters to do the job and the spacing blocks to get the cuts on the money. It is a fairly easy job to do, once you grasp the concept of rekeying a lever lock with 6 or 7 levers. From experience, most s/d levers have the number on them for the cut, so pull the renters side apart, mix the levers, then recut a key and you are done. Don't mess with the guard side, that never changes. If there are no numbers stamped on the plates, you would need to measure the lever and then cut the key to match. I have a set of numbered levers down here for almost everybody's locks i have saved over the years, so I just compare what I know to what I do not know and then go from there.

AS far as opening boxes, get a good s/d set of tools from HPC or Lockmasters. Get the full set. You will need a nose puller and perhaps a door puller as well. Although I try not to pull the door if I can, because it destroys the lock body. Mosler Invincible is one you should NEVER pull. You can spot that by the "wafer" keyway instead of the straight one. The M I lock shoots bolts into the top and bottom of the box along with the bolt. SO pulling the door is out. You need to learn how to do this one the "other way" -- not mentioning this on this open forum.

You will also need to make a special tool once the nose comes out, to work the bolt and then the bolt will usually roll over. This is not normally sold so here again you need a "smith moment" and make your own. Experience is the best teacher in these things.

Replacement parts are no longer really available, so today I use Bullseye locks for that, and transfer the guard section from a blown body to the new one. Be sure to get the spacers and the levers for that side in EXACTLY as they came out or the guard won't work.

In the past I had a bin full of Diebold and Mosler parts due to those were the major ones we worked on. You also should be familiar with S and G and Yale, although Yale is rarely seen anymore. The rest are pretty much out of the picture anymore except in some really odd places.

Hope this helps --

Sinifar

[billdeserthills]

I kinda disagree, I know over the years I have done safe deposit opening in 4 or 5 dif banks. All were small-time banks, but they all had real safe deposit boxes.
I think the most important thing is that You be 100% sure-Before you destroy anything that You either have a replacement lock or can get one. I never bought
any safe deposit tools because it looked fairly simple to me. The few times I pulled a cylinder I first trimmed the area around the keyholes with my dremel tool
it didn't make for a fast job, but I had plenty of time. Many times I wound up with a punch bashing the lock off, which may have had some bank employees wondering
what I was up too, but I still always have managed to get the box open, without damaging anything I couldn't replace. Sinifar is certainly correct about doing safe deposit
work for the larger chains of banks, they do seem to be locked up. I suspect though, with as cheap as bankers are, that if someone approached with a better deal, they
would likely change their lock opening company & fast too. One thing seems universal with safe deposit locks, if you don't have the specialty tools required the lock will
need to be destroyed to get in, which isn't a big deal, as long as you have a replacement. You don't want to pick the wrong lock to destroy, because banks have a contract with
their safe deposit renter, which specifies that lost keys will cost a certain stated amount. Out my way that amount is $95 to $125. If you destroy the wrong lock you can easily
exceed the contract price by double or more,& You can bet the bank will demand a firm quoted price from you Before the work has begun, so identification is the difference
between Your company making or losing money on this type of job!

One piece of good news is as Sinifar says, aftermarket locks are now widely available, from bullseye and also other places, I know most of mine came from kaba ilco, or
whatever they are calling themselves this week. These locks are generally under $20 apiece, so you can easily build up a decent stock of them for about $200, before you
ever damage anything at the bank. Be on the lookout for old, antique set-ups, destroying an un-replaceable lock is a recipe for unhappiness & lost profits

Lastly, I have never once needed to use my framon to make keys, as my replacement locks all come with the keys needed for the renter side. Buying a safe deposit matchwork
or rekeying kit allows me to set the guard side to the bank's master key although some banks are too cheap to pay and simply add another different key to their keyring. Of course
if you don't ruin all the tumblers in the old lock, you can many times use them to rekey your replacement lock.