Expensive Locksmiths!

[Sbecspeledrx]

I'm having a bit of difficulty plucking up the courage to ask for proper money to do openings. I'm going to have to otherwise I'll be undercutting all the good lockeys in my area and I don't want to be doing that.

At the moment i charge £45 for an opening if i get woken up to do it (say between 9 and 9!), The rest of the time I feel cheeky asking anymore than £25. e.g. I'm going to hopefully open a safe tommorow. There's no rush so I can fit it into my day as I'm going past. Would you guys still charge full whack for doing that? I mean the safe is only worth £125!

And I'm also getting offered loads of work fitting locks. Again £45 an hour seems a bit steep there - so I'm charging a £10 for fitting and making a 100% mark up on the lock - (still cheaper than the customer buying the lock themselves in a hardware store).

[Varjeal]

/soapbox

1. Charge a fair set rate, and keep it as consistent as possible or people will start talking and try to negotiate.

2. You are working in a service industry, not a flea market. Professionals don't negotiate prices.

3. The easiest way to gain courage is to have your prices on a price list sheet, and when people ask, you show 'em the sheet and say, "these are my prices," and if necessary lie and say, "my boss doesn't haggle."

4. The reason people call service people is to provide a service that they either a.) cannot do it themselves, or b.) do not want to do it themselves. If you are taking the time to get skilled and have the tools, knowledge and time to do so, then charge accordingly and fairly.

For some reason locksmiths seem to be a target for price negotiation, and I think it's because too many are willing to do so. No one goes into a lawyers office and says, "your price is a bit high, can you do it for less?" or to a plumber after unclogging a toliet, "that only took you 5 min, I think that's only worth a twenty" or "excuse me doctor, but 10Gr for a heart operation is too much, I know a guy who can do it for 5."

As long as you offer good service for a reasonable price, you have no reason to be ashamed, and if you can perform the work well, you DESERVE to get paid like it.

I get very ticked off when someone tries to negotiate price with me, and if they're that desperate to price shop, quite frankly they can go somewhere else, because there's plenty willing to pay reasonable prices for my excellent service and product.

/off soapbox temporarily to take blood pressure pills.

[Jpaul]

Would you guys still charge full whack for doing that? I mean the safe is only worth £125!

But they could be £5000 in the safe...

And yes we have opened £30 safes with the owner's life in it, eg cash, passports etc!!

And as Varjeal says

The reason people call service people is to provide a service that they either a.) cannot do it themselves, or b.) do not want to do it themselves. If you are taking the time to get skilled and have the tools, knowledge and time to do so, then charge accordingly and fairly.

[Grudge]

Since Varjeal left the soapbox temporarily vacant...

Actually your a small business, and you need to think like one otherwise you risk not making it. I agree with Varjeal, charge fair and consistant prices based on what the market is like in your area. Don't be afraid to charge what you are worth BUT also make sure you act in a business like manner (dress properly; wipe your feet; your screw up? fix it, couldn't do the job properly; give a refund). Everyone remembers the people who want something for nothing or who are never happy, but MOST people just want a good, professional job done at a fair price.

Just my 2 cents.

[Varjeal]

/returns and shoves Grudge off

Oh..umm..sorry...guess you said pretty much what I had to say...hehehe..anyways...yeah...ditto.

/off soapbox

[Mad Mick]

*elbows Varj in the ribs and jumps up on the soapbox, whilst he coughs blood*

At the current rate, you are either a) heading for bankruptcy, or b) heading for a lynching from the other trading lockies in the area.

A common mistake is to try and be compassionate towards those you are providing a service to, feeling that the service charge is too high. Ask yourself this... how much have you already expended in attending this call? Maybe you have driven 10 miles in heavy traffic, taking 30+ minutes to get there. Sometimes more. How much would you have made in the same period by cutting keys/rekeying locks etc. How much would the competition charge for a similar job? If unsure, do a test...lock a relative out of their home and call another lockie for a price.

If you have the ability to get the customer back into their home non-destructively, why shouldn't you be paid a similar amount to what the other locksmiths charge?

*mis-judges Varjeal's uppercut, and writhes in agony as Varjeal retakes the soapbox.*

[quicklocks]

ok im going to beat varjeal to his soap box here and say this:-
if the customer base you are targeting is well off then you need to raise your price alittle but if the customer base is poorer then you are about right . im not saying rip off rich people what im saying if you want to get the work from the poorer side then you cannot be to expensive. its down to your area realy some lockies in big citys charge alot eg. london and brum. where as we lockies in the sticks wont get the work as the customer then phones a carpenter who may not know how to open the locks he fitts without damaging the door or lock but may charge less than us.
unfortunatly this is the case where i live and its a pain. a local wholesaler shows me some of the killed locks that these carpenters bring in and its quite funny. about 1 month ago i was shown a chubb 3k that had been drilled from the sash handle to the key hole with a 12mm drill straight through the lever pack and all the workings totaly killing the lock. you can bet that the person who did this then sold the customer a new one (he killed it he should pay for it ) where a lockie could have picked it or if he had to drill it it would still have worked ok when he had finished thus costing less money so the customer would have been better off eg.

carpenter quotes for job to open door
£30 but then charges for the lock about £67 if my memory serves me right
now cost to customer £97

lockie quotes
£45 it either open great or he has to drill it and lets say our lockie has a bad day and slips a little with the drill and catches the lever pack the new pack costs approx £20 say, he then glues some old hard plate over the hole in the lock and refits it.
cost to customer £65

but the customer sees the call out quote of £30 or £45 and in most cases go for the cheapest
sad but true

im not having a pop at carpenters here im just using them as a example so please dont shout at me or i will cry and get my dad to hit your dad so there

(now steps off soap box and slips hitting head on edge and having to be airlifted to hospital )

[Shrub]

I live in a close knit community where everyone knows everyone else, i find every job i go on i get asked for 'a cash price'

To be honest my prices are just right but low for the work so a reduction is not only bad business sence it would bankrupt me,

What i do for these people is to tell a little white lie, i dont see anything wrong with it but am sure i will get blasted on here for it,

I tell them that as its them i will not charge the VAT,

What this does is make the customer think they are getting a favour and good deal (they are anyway) and at the same time i get my money for the job and everyones happy,

I dont claim VAT yet so dont charge it anytime but when your at a door the customer isnt going to start checking up whether you are regristed or not and what you charged joe bloggs down the road,

The customer is over the moon as youve knocked money off, you have got your full price for the job and get the good word spred as well about your buisness.

All i am doing is not telling the customers that are happy paying the bills that i havent charged them VAT either,

As a note to those across the pond that dont know, VAT stands for Value Added Tax and is payable on most things but can only be claimed for when you are earning over a certain amount, until then all stock etc is a little dearer as you are paying the full 'trade' price, VAT is currentally at 17.5% and is killing the small buisness in this country who have to compete with the big corporate companys who now buy their stock abroad at rock bottom prices,

[quicklocks]

i just read my last post and forgot to say that the lockie should pay for the lever pack, but i was just leveling the playing field if know what i mean so the carpenter and locke were working in a simialer way eg they broke it and the customer pays for it

i do NOT condone this type of work but it does happen

[Chrispy]

Shrub, the VAT you mention sounds pretty bad. 17.5%!! We here in Aus have the GST (Goods & Services Tax) and that's killing everyone, not just small businesses. And it's only 10%!!

[Shrub]

Yes it is a pain, when you are turning over more than £55000 a year (i think) you can claim it back off your business items but until then you pretty much end up paying a lot for stock that the hardware store down the road sells for the same price,

And dont get me started on the price of fuel, 90p a litre in some places!

[NKT]

Pricing... Always a tricky subject!

You did the job to the best of your ability, and charged a few quid for the parts and £35 for the hour it took.

Now, the drive took 30 minutes there and 20 back, plus loading up, etc., plus the time actually at the job.

So £40 for the two hours it actually took is only £20 an hour. But then you have to factor in how many jobs a day you need to do to break even, at £20 an hour. If you need £45 a day to cover the rent, fixed expenses, etc., then you need at least 2 jobs a day, and three a day twice a week.

Now assume it costs you about £8 for tool wear, fuel, the usual stuff, per job.

Charge £20 an hour, do your two jobs quickly and effectively, and you will have spent 30 minutes billable at both your jobs, and suddenly, you are £10 richer. But that won't pay the rent - not all of it. And suddenly, less costs of fuel, etc. you have earned about £2. Get stuck in a traffic jam, and you might loose money on the actual job!

£45/£2 = 22 jobs a day. That just isn't feasible, even if you never get stuck in traffic.

At £20 average per hour per job, once you knock off the £8 costs to you of doing each job, you need about three a day just to break even.

You are *never* going to get rich by undercutting yourself. You will never be able to afford that BS pick, either, nor replace your drill, drill bits, van, etc.

Finally, remember that you will always find it easier to pitch your prices slightly high and reduce them, than to increase them afterwards. When quoting, always include a caveat about the cost of replacing the lock if it is broken, etc. too. That way, the price can be moved up or down as required for it to be fair to *you*.

If you want to do it for free, do it for free. If you are going to charge, charge the proper rate for the job you do.

[acl]

Shrub,you can actually become vat registered at any time ( obviusly you have to chare it then and do a return every quarter so theres more paperwork involved) the 55k threshold is when you HAVE to be Vat registered.
Just to add to your 90p for fuel,anyone see what the a**eholes are proposing to do re a mileage charge on our roads? i think it was in excess of a pound a mile.Steven does approx 1000 miles a week and i do probably 500 ! I wonder why they didnt bring this to light before the election.A sure fire vote winner eh?!
Andy[/img]

[Rockford]

The proposed mileage charges will vary according to factors such as the road (minor, A Road, Motorway etc.), day of the week, time of day, if the PM's wife needs a new hat etc, etc (you get the picture ). Bottom line, it's likely to be more expensive than the current road and petrol tax systems, and it's going to drive people off the road and probably out of business. Will the customer pay the increase if we pass it on through our rates ?.

The politicians answer - use public transport more, even though the current infrastructure is poor. So to go to a job 40 miles away I'll need to catch a number 98 bus to the train station, hop onto a train (standing room only), then hope there's a connecting bus at the other end for the final 3 miles of the journey. After completing the job I've then got to make my way back home - Oh, and the train drivers have just announced a 24hr strike starting 10 minutes ago. All this with my 6 cases and 2 rucksacks full of locks (because the owner wasn't sure what locks she had on the door). Far fetched - Yes (or is it ?).

Rant over - bloody politicians

[Shrub]

NKT, i NEVER charge travelling time, so for me it wouldn’t have been £20 for the job and £20 for the drive, i charge 1 basic cost regardless of how long im there and how long it takes to get there, i would never factor travelling in when i am quoting prices, if ive understood you wrong i apologise,

Andy, I had heard you could register before the £55k but hadn’t found any info on it, ill stick as i am for now i think or do you think there is a lot more of an advantage registering early?
Pound per mile thing is ludicrous, wait for more truck strike chaos blocking the motorways in protest, i cant actually see them getting it through and i for one will molest and alter any electronics put on my vehicle to keep track of me, the soldering iron and scope will be out quicker than they can charge me.

Rockford, Unfortunately you’ve hit it on the head, will the police, ambulance and fire crews have to pay such charges, the politicians, the priminister, the royal family etc, are all these going to be done as well,

As far as im concerned they can have EITHER road tax OR mileage tax but they are not having both from me, if the mileage tax comes in i would expect the petrol tax dropped as well, they cant keep taxing everything in this country, next you will be charged a breathing allowance and if you are a runner etc you will be charged more for the extra intake of air and you can say goodbye to those romantic nights in with the missus because a shag would cost you £50, like it does now for some members (allegedly) not me by the way