Top ten (or more) things that piss a locksmith off!

[mcnewbie]

show up to do a $40 auto lockout job.

one of the goons from AMI or RunLocal or whatever they're calling the company that week is on site in an unmarked vehicle trying to charge the customer $175 to wedge the door open and stick the glorified coat hanger inside to trip the electronic lock.

he gets on the phone to his boss and suddenly drops the price down to $15. and then tries to recruit me into the scam as i go to leave in disgust.

[cledry]

Wow, $40 is cheap. Is that the going rate in Memphis? I think we used to charge that in the 1980s but gas was a lot cheaper then.

[raider]

We charge $40 in town and add mileage out side of the city limits and most people gripe that we charge to much, so I just tell them to call the Tow truck guys if they do not like my price they usallly change the tune when they call to tow truck and find oput what they charge.

[cledry]

The going rate for a trip charge here is $60 - $75.

[Thursday]

"Instant Experts". I hit both of these guys within days of opening the shop:

First was the fella who described how none of the padlocks were safe on his gate (out on his farm). I suggested a couple options, to which he complained about different forces that could be used to break the locks. So I mentioned working on a gate design with him to increase resistance, he said "What if they just cut through the gate, though?"

(Yeah, dude - if someone comes to your house with a bulldozer, there's not much I can do for you.)

The other was a friend who had a... lively... childhood, who talked about being able "to get into any car". I mentioned some of the safeguards put in since the 1970s, and he insisted he could still break into anything on wheels.

(I can too - with a ceramic spark plug! The difficulty with doing this legally is not setting off airbags, or damaging the connecting rods, or scratching the paint, or...)

[cledry]

I'll add a new one today. Big MK job and somehow all the keys cut on the HPC 1200 are off. Turns out it is a problem with the jaw. Now the big peeve is that nobody stocks the jaw for the HPC 1200. So to get the job completed in a timely manner we have to run out and buy another HPC 1200 for $2000 and re-cut several hundred keys.

[minifhncc]

I'll add a new one today. Big MK job and somehow all the keys cut on the HPC 1200 are off. Turns out it is a problem with the jaw. Now the big peeve is that nobody stocks the jaw for the HPC 1200. So to get the job completed in a timely manner we have to run out and buy another HPC 1200 for $2000 and re-cut several hundred keys.

Was this the same job as the 600 locks you master keyed?

Just out of curiousity, why do you opt for the HPC 1200? I would imagine it'd be a real pain to cut so many keys on a manual machine...

By the way, I'm not having a go at you, I'm just curious because you obviously do have good reasons for doing so.

[cledry]

I'll add a new one today. Big MK job and somehow all the keys cut on the HPC 1200 are off. Turns out it is a problem with the jaw. Now the big peeve is that nobody stocks the jaw for the HPC 1200. So to get the job completed in a timely manner we have to run out and buy another HPC 1200 for $2000 and re-cut several hundred keys.

Was this the same job as the 600 locks you master keyed?

Just out of curiousity, why do you opt for the HPC 1200? I would imagine it'd be a real pain to cut so many keys on a manual machine...

By the way, I'm not having a go at you, I'm just curious because you obviously do have good reasons for doing so.

No, thank goodness. For some reason (probably because we don't use original Sargent pins) but Sargent have never cut exactly on any of our HPC machines. However this time the jaw when tightened would kick the key up (with Ilco neuter bow keys). We had to rush out and buy another machine because the job needed to be finished before the weekend.

[minifhncc]

I see.. What machine do you usually use to cut keys for a MK job?

Also, for non restricted keyways, in your experience, what are the most common applications of MK locks? Because around here, most MKed locks are restricted keyways. The only common application of MKed locks without a restrictive keyway here, I think, is construction keying for new house builds.

[globallockytoo]

I see.. What machine do you usually use to cut keys for a MK job?

Also, for non restricted keyways, in your experience, what are the most common applications of MK locks? Because around here, most MKed locks are restricted keyways. The only common application of MKed locks without a restrictive keyway here, I think, is construction keying for new house builds.

Actually that's not quite true, mate!

Yes there are many restricted key master key systems in Oz, but primarily this is due to the locksmiths and manufacturers (Lockwood) preferring to recommend key control systems for master keying, so to better manage systems. A non restricted key system, has virtually no key control, which usually causes potential detriment to key systems.

But there are many companies with multiple sites in Sydney and beyond that still use master keyed locks but on the standard C4 keyways. The old Lockwood nightlatch was the most sold front door lock In Australia until the late '70's. It used a C4R keyway, 5 pin and was commonly master keyed for builders.

The more common applications for MK'ed lock systems were multi-dwelling apartment complexes, schools, hospitals etc. But to ensure protected access control, restricted key control systems were introduced to give customers a better handling of their systems.

I remember keying up multiple large master keyed systems using the old Efco GAR and GKR keyway profiles. Those keyways were not patent protected keyways, so arguably they offered limited key control protection. Fortunately, they were offered by Efco, before Lockwood bought out Efco and many of their systems were built by Specialty Hardware (in Melbourne) because they were the original company offered their own keyways (GAR/GKR). when the keyblank manufacturers discovered that the keyways were not protected (many years after introduction), suddenly every one could duplicate a key, effectively cancelling the key control aspects.

[cledry]

I see.. What machine do you usually use to cut keys for a MK job?

Also, for non restricted keyways, in your experience, what are the most common applications of MK locks? Because around here, most MKed locks are restricted keyways. The only common application of MKed locks without a restrictive keyway here, I think, is construction keying for new house builds.

The code keys are cut on a HPC 1200, the duplicates are cut on a Silca Bravo.

MK's locks are used on practically every office building, school, church, university, manufacturing company, shopping center and many apartment buildings in the US. Most are not on restricted keyways. Schools and universities tend to be restricted. Some systems use a combination of restricted and open keyways.

It isn't always about key control or even security but rather convenience.

[zeke79]

Opening a car in town and having the customer complain they are not paying that much money for two minutes of work. I explain that experience has made it that fast and ask if they would rather I make them stand in the cold for fifteen minutes to make it seem more economical to them. If they complain too much I throw the keys in the seat, lock and close the door and walk. They always stop me and say they will pay the price. This time I state the cost is the original service charge plus my minimum one hour rate.

Another is situational. The only other lockie in the area has been in business forever so he has minimal equipment that isn't paid for so his prices are so low I cannot compete and turn a profit. $25 for a lockout in his town (8 miles away) and $30 in the town I live in. This is why I gave up on going into the trade full time as I just cannot charge what I need to charge to stay afloat and put food on the table while adding equipment to be able to do other services. I honestly don't see how he makes enough to stay in business with gas prices charging what he charges. One should know that your prices are way way out of date when you can take a call from an autoclub and they pay more than your standard fees.

[RigaMortice]

If they complain too much I throw the keys in the seat, lock and close the door and walk. They always stop me and say they will pay the price. This time I state the cost is the original service charge plus my minimum one hour rate.

I tip my hat to you sir.

Here in the UK I've heard people can, and do, charge over £100 ($160 at current exchange) for an auto lockout, provided it's not some high tech benz/bmw deadlocked system.

[PSS]

When i finish the job and then claim to be £10 short and tell me i can pick it up later...

When its a ten mile drive its not really an option

[lockjock50]

You have to love the "cant you bill me?" "Can you follow me to the bank?" "Dont you take aaa?"
Or they ask to borrow a slim Jim.
Or they are trying a hanger in the door when you arrive and say "wait a few minutes, i may be able to get it myself"