Starting an Auto Lockout side businesses and need help!

[mec64]

Hi everyone!

This is my first post, and I hope it's well received. I have been reading various topics on the forum for about a week now, and I'm having some issues figuring out exactly what tools I would need in order to break into the business (I live in New Mexico, USA). I am trying to get into the auto lockout business, and slowly progress toward a complete automotive solution with key making/duplication, lockouts and anything else involved with the automotive locksmithing industry.

Having said all that, I have put together a shopping cart of items from lockpickshop.com and I would really appreciate your opinions about the list I have put together, as well as anything else I need in order to start with auto lockouts.

Without further ado, here is the list I have come up with (these links are all directed at lockpickshop.com):

LOCKAID Lockaid Lock Pick Gun - The Original (http://www.lockpickshop.com/mm5/merchan ... de=LOCKAID)

AUTO-LOCK-PICK-SET Master Auto Super Pick Set (http://www.lockpickshop.com/mm5/merchan ... K-PICK-SET)

AUTO-WEDGE-KIT Air Fighter Pro-Auto Opening Kit (http://www.lockpickshop.com/mm5/merchan ... -WEDGE-KIT)

Honestly, I am brand new and I plan on practicing relentlessly until I'm able to open the most popular makes/models and years of vehicles in my area. If anyone has anything to add to this small list to help me on my way to becoming an auto lockout specialist I would love to hear your thoughts! Guides, videos, courses and any other tools would be tremendously helpful! Thank you very much for taking the time to read my post! I hope that this thread may turn into something that other aspiring auto lockout locksmiths may turn to in order to figure out what they need without looking all over the place.

Best regards,

Mason

[GWiens2001]

Speaking as a Honda technician, it gives me the screaming heebie-jeebies when I see that pick gun on your list. DO NOT use that pick gun on ANY Honda with sidewinder keys. Also, please be gentle with your hand picks and jigglers. These are not as robust as a pin tumbler lock. If you are a skilled picker, you already know how to pick these. If not, just let it suffice to say that there are top and bottom pins on each side, loaded from top and bottom, and all 4 directions must be picked.

The honda sidewinder keys use half wafers. The key contact area is extremely small, and easily damaged. It is a very small tab sticking out from the side of the half wafer. In the PDF below, page 6 shows a drawing of the "disc" (half wafer).

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/hybridownertech/2009-12-06_224932_door_lock.pdf

The big, beefy tab on the "top" of the drawing is for the spring. The actual key contact area (and the part the pick gun would be likely to damage) is the tiny tab just above the arrow in the drawing identifying the half wafer as the "disc".

Having worked with these for years, i can assure you that these locks will not be happy with a pick gun. The springs are also delecate.

Just giving you fair warning on Honda sidewinder locks.

The majority of Ford locks I worked on (former Ford tech) are far more robust. But being a full wafer, probably are easier to simply pick. Like the Hondas, the Ford wafers are installed from both the top and the bottom of the lock cylinder, so you may want to skip the pick gun here, too. I hear that the newer Ford use Tibbe locks. Go ahead and Google them.

Be extra careful using the inflate-a-wedge with that lockout kit. I use one at work for customers (and the rare employee) who lock keys in the cars. Only open a gap barely wide enough to insert the tool, or else you risk bending the door, causing leaking and wind noise. One tip I can give you here is to have a spray bottle with a strong mixture of soapy water. (I use Mr. Bubble, or dish soap when I can't find Mr. Bubble). Spray the inflate-a-wedge with soapy water on both sides for lubrication to make insertion easier and prevent tearing the door seals. I think opening vehicle doors is an advanced forum topic, so that will have to do for tips.

In short, having worked with only the two makes listed, put the pick gun gently on the ground, and slowly back away with your hands in the air. Also, be sure to have GOOD liability insurance. You might want to consider apprenticing yourself to another lockout specialist before just jumping in with both feet.

Good luck to you.

[cledry]

I wouldn't use a pick gun on any auto lock. For one thing it will cause damage and second they are designed for pin tumbler locks which are only found on older vehicles.

[2octops]

Personally I would not buy any of the items listed. 2 of the three are basically useless and there are much better options for the third.

Get set up with a legitimate locksmith supplier and buy some real automotive locksmith tools.

A good set of lock out tools, Steck rod, make some pick keys, Lishi 2-in-1's, and high security lick set from Lockmasters for overlifting.

Don't forget a good liability policy.

[wheresmykeys?]

I love and would say for you too check these out, www.z-tool.com
Grand Master Z-Tool This is the best kit i have ever used works great.
Go read about it and check out all the built in features.

[Squelchtone]

Fellas, you're really skirting the line here.. Please refer to the forum rules, automotive opening discussion is for the Advanced sub forum only, and not to be talked about in the public forums. I know you're asking which tools kits to buy for your new business, but people replying and telling methods and suggesting other tools is borderline advanced. We don't want to arm bad guys with a shopping list of the best tools do we?

Lockpicking101.com Forums House Rules:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=715

19. Discussion of topics deemed "advanced" are reserved for the advanced forums. These topics include bypass of high security locks, safe lock manipulation, advanced pick tools, automotive bypass & picking discussion and destructive entry.

Please be mindful of the rules so that we don't have to edit, censor, lock, or move your posts.

Squelchtone

[stratmando]

You seem more focused on the Lock, Picking is Great, Lockout tools can make short work of things, I got the Super Pro with the 2012 Updates, Has a Large Manual with views of the doors and which tool to use, has a CD and DVD showing the use of the tools, and a book on dealing with the Electronic Keys.
http://www.hightechtools.com/catalog.ph ... ductid=110
Several Companies make Kits, Compare them and the Price.
Happy with mine, You will likely only use a couple of the tools, but it is nice to handle anything.
Lockpicking can only help.

[Hollywoodpick]

I do car and home lockouts every day and i would not buy any of the items you listed they are the wrong tools for the job a wast of time and money.

[2octops]

Fellas, you're really skirting the line here.. Please refer to the forum rules, automotive opening discussion is for the Advanced sub forum only, and not to be talked about in the public forums. I know you're asking which tools kits to buy for your new business, but people replying and telling methods and suggesting other tools is borderline advanced. We don't want to arm bad guys with a shopping list of the best tools do we?

It's very difficult for us that have full access to tell the difference between what topics are in advanced sub forums and which are not.

When I visit, I typically click on the View New Post heading and see what's new. With that page open, all topics look the same. The topics are the same color and the sub forum titles are same color.

Normally when someone asks an advanced question in a regular sub forum, it's pretty obvious. Sometimes though it's not and if there is not something showing the difference between advanced and regular, then the question might actually get a correct response or two before a mod catches it.

I'm not real familiar with phpBB software, but is there a way that the advanced topics could be in a different color or have a different icon next to them or something so they stand out?

[Squelchtone]

Fellas, you're really skirting the line here.. Please refer to the forum rules, automotive opening discussion is for the Advanced sub forum only, and not to be talked about in the public forums. I know you're asking which tools kits to buy for your new business, but people replying and telling methods and suggesting other tools is borderline advanced. We don't want to arm bad guys with a shopping list of the best tools do we?

It's very difficult for us that have full access to tell the difference between what topics are in advanced sub forums and which are not.

When I visit, I typically click on the View New Post heading and see what's new. With that page open, all topics look the same. The topics are the same color and the sub forum titles are same color.

Normally when someone asks an advanced question in a regular sub forum, it's pretty obvious. Sometimes though it's not and if there is not something showing the difference between advanced and regular, then the question might actually get a correct response or two before a mod catches it.

I'm not real familiar with phpBB software, but is there a way that the advanced topics could be in a different color or have a different icon next to them or something so they stand out?

That's a good question and something I'll have to dig around to find the answer to. I also use the show new posts link [ search.php?search_id=newposts ] so I know what you mean about it all looking the same. Thanks for bringing this up, in the mean time I ask that everyone just do their best to keep vigilant while replying to posts and keep one eye on which sub forum (public or advanced) you happen to be in while replying.

Have a good week everybody,
Squelchtone

[2octops]

I've worked with some forum softwares in the past and they do not have the ability to change stuff like I was talking about.

One thing that you could do is to add "Advanced" to the name of the sub forums that are advanced. That would help a little and should be a simple task.

[snapisimo]

Hey Bud,

Lot of good advice on your thread. Um, yeah, before we get started let's get one thing out there right away. I've opened thousands of cars and made thousands of auto keys. About 20 years worth. My last post was an auto lock-out lesson and caught a bit of heat from the moderator, ..that said.

When I started running service calls I bought a store bought kit that looked like wreckage from a disassembled a grocery cart. Toward the end of my career my kit was very sized down; just a hand full. So since I can't speak of reach tools, z tools, air bags, frameless windows, or a flash light on a stick; hey, a lot of the stuff you can make your self. You can save a ton of dough if you know what to do with a slab of Teflon, an old butter knife, spring steel stock, or the handle off a 5 gal. paint bucket.

A couple of things you could do to expedite your lock-out artist goals are to get a buddy at a junk yard that will let you play with cars. The old models and the new ones too. A lot of new cars at insurance yards. Start out on vehicles that have the inner door panels removed and explore. Learn the difference between a lazy pawl and a fixed pawl, how the linkages work, how to pop wing windows, etc. Just have some fun and keep your eyes and imagination open. (because maybe the sun roof is loose) Keep track of the years of various cars and how that applies. Keep a notebook. Pay attention to the key-ways (key hole) of the cars too. If you find a car and can't open it, refuse to lose. Say for example you can crack a Ford pickup very well. Then you get stumped on an old Ranger. Go find an old Ranger and learn the double slim jim trick, or whatever it is you have to know so it never happens again. Take it easy on the Beemers and Benzes, get skilled at what mostly is out there. The unique high dollar vehicles, well, if you bone it - it can take a lot of fun out of your profit margin. If you want to make a key for a Benz, go to school.

I've only broken one window on a car, but it was brand new and I was not paying full attention to the task at hand. The new (at the time) 300 Z's changed a little so my insurance company and I found out the hard way. Some things change from year to year or model to model, some of'em stay the same or similar for eons.

Not all locksmiths or tow truck drivers are skilled at auto lock-out, nor may they be willing to share, but glean all you can from other guys when it's possible. If they give you any information, try it out on a junker. See if they'll let you borrow a tool so you can get some material and copy it on your bench.

Keep the pick gun too. I've never used them on vehicles but sometimes people get locked out of their whole world and the other tools will eventually come in handy. My last five years or so I was full time emergency lock-outs only. I had a hand truck with everything I needed to do the job without going back to the van (baby in the 23rd floor apartment you don't want to go back to the van) - regular pick gun, an electric, a hand set, auto lock-0ut kit, residential and commercial specialty tools, drill motors, a mini cutting torch... The short story is: make up your mind you're 'going in' and learn something everyday.

Stay Humble,
snap

[2octops]

Gotta admit snap, that's the first time I've heard of a locksmith with a cutting torch for lockouts!

[EmCee]

Presumably for glued locks? If the lock's glued and the customer has no key then I wouldn't faff around picking it open since it'll have to be replaced anyway, but if the customer has the key it might be quicker.

[snapisimo]

Gotta admit snap, that's the first time I've heard of a locksmith with a cutting torch for lockouts!

lol, Salty air in my town. Torches work well on padlocks that are rusted through. Then you sell the guy a new lock.