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Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

This area is for discussing the installation and troubleshooting of access control, prox reader, strikes, or electronic prox fob and keypad locks. No bypass or Advanced techniques please.

Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby Freerider » 12 May 2015 6:07

Hi everybody,

I live in Saint-Petersburg, Russia. Recently one of our manufacturer launched electromechanical locks with a new principle of power supply. I am curious to know English-speaking professionals opinions about this new solution. Especilally I am curious what do you think about reliability of this new principle.
Locks description page: https://www.perco.com/products/electronic-locks/
Video:
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby tomasfuk » 12 May 2015 7:10

Sure, the contacts, plus the more complicated construction (the lock must have some kind of energy accumulator for operation without power) must result in reliability loss. It can be compensated but such improvement costs huge money.
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby tomasfuk » 12 May 2015 7:13

Thus, it cannot be subject of mass production, thus it cannot be cheap. You will pay too much for hiding the cable.
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby allan501 » 12 May 2015 11:25

Actually I think it looks fairly interesting, I can see some advantages and disadvantages but they would be kind of specialized.

They would simplify wiring a little bit and they might be easier to install on some kinds of doors.

The fact that the latch makes the electric circuit could be useful to provide a latch status. That is it could detect if the latch is fully seated rather than if the door is closed but the latch is taped down or something has been stuffed into the strike plate.

The basic problem will be reliability. After the unit has been in use for a while you will accumulate grunge and corrosion on the contacts which will cause intermittent problems.

The big selling point seems to be the aesthetics of the installation compared to door loops. My own solution is to use a power transfer hinge. They look like an ordinary hinge but the have the wiring inside the hinge so that when the are installed they look like an ordinary hinge. Power is run down the door frame to the hinge, through the hinge and into the door. Generally they are installed as the middle hinge then a hole is drilled through the center of the door from the hinge to the lock side. This has the same aesthetics and the advantage of soldered or crimped connections.
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby Freerider » 13 May 2015 8:16

allan501 wrote:My own solution is to use a power transfer hinge.


Very interesting. But a hinge has open wires outside that can be damaged easily, isn't it?
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby Squelchtone » 13 May 2015 8:23

Freerider wrote:
allan501 wrote:My own solution is to use a power transfer hinge.


Very interesting. But a hinge has open wires outside that can be damaged easily, isn't it?


check it out: http://www.htsalescompany.com/catalog/P ... ECB-FB.jpg

allan501, that's a cool product, thanks for mentioning that such a thing exists! I'm always learning something new here =)

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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby Freerider » 13 May 2015 8:54

Squelchtone wrote:check it out: http://www.htsalescompany.com/catalog/P ... ECB-FB.jpg
Squelchtone


Thanks for specifying that such hinge has wiring from the backside. I see such thing for the first time.
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby allan501 » 13 May 2015 8:58

Yes, that is exactly it. No exposed wire and it looks like an ordinary hinge. It also means the wires aren't subject to tampering the way a door loop is.

My main worry when I started using them is how well the stand up over time and repeated use. So far I have some on doors with heavy usage for over 10 years and no problems.
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby nick08037 » 13 May 2015 10:06

the power/data transfer hinge has proven the test of time, there are really no issues with reliability from a moving parts standpoint that you would expect, they are commonly used in very demanding environments which including access control systems that require monitoring door position/secure status, the door position and lock status is a function of the installed mortise lock hardware and done without any additional switches or contacts, all of this is very necessary in some institutional settings
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby Simeon » 19 May 2015 6:24

tomasfuk wrote:Sure, the contacts, plus the more complicated construction (the lock must have some kind of energy accumulator for operation without power) must result in reliability loss. It can be compensated but such improvement costs huge money.

tomasfuk wrote:Thus, it cannot be subject of mass production, thus it cannot be cheap. You will pay too much for hiding the cable.

PERCo LB-series locks, like other electromechanical locks (for example, Abloy, Cisa, ISEO, Omec and others) are powered through the electrical network, which does not prevent their mass production. PERCo LB-series locks are regular electromechanical locks, but with the power supply not to the lock itself, but to the terminal block in the door frame. Such connection scheme is more cost-effective and makes installation much easier due to cable expenditure reduction as there’s no need in laying an additional cable duct inside the door. Usually, there’s about 1-2 meters of cable saving for one door.
allan501 wrote:The basic problem will be reliability. After the unit has been in use for a while you will accumulate grunge and corrosion on the contacts which will cause intermittent problems.

The main feature of LB-series locks is mechanically self-rectifying contacts, which operate due to their shape’s structural features. Strike plate contacts are designed in the form of knobs. Bolt contacts have small cone deepenings. When bolt contacts come in touch with strike plate knobs, there’s a sliding, which removes all benign contaminations.
In reality, bolt contacts are almost unable to get contaminated as the lock is designed for indoor use in offices and other premises where contamination is not so sufficient.
The lock operation conditions are specified in its certificate: the lock is to be operated in premises with climate control, for example, in closed heated or cooled ventilated facilities and other rooms, including well-ventilated underground facilities (the product should be kept from direct and diffuse solar radiation, from atmospheric condensation, wind, sand, outer air dust and moisture condensation).
Contacts reliably can’t get rusted as they are made of stainless steel of AISI 304 type. This type of steel is not only moisture resistant, but also resistant to different chemical agents.
allan501 wrote:The big selling point seems to be the aesthetics of the installation compared to door loops. My own solution is to use a power transfer hinge. They look like an ordinary hinge but the have the wiring inside the hinge so that when the are installed they look like an ordinary hinge. Power is run down the door frame to the hinge, through the hinge and into the door. Generally they are installed as the middle hinge then a hole is drilled through the center of the door from the hinge to the lock side. This has the same aesthetics and the advantage of soldered or crimped connections.

LB-series lock installation is easier than lock feeding through the power transfer hinges. Using power transfer hinges, you are to install the third hinge and the cable through the door leaf. LB-series locks installation does not require using third hinge and 1 extra meter of cable. In case the door is to be removed (for example, replaced), using power transfer hinges, the cable is to be disconnected from the lock and there should be made a hole in the door for the new cable. Removing the door with the LB-series locks, only the lock itself is to be demounted from the door leaf and mounted into the new door.
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby Squelchtone » 19 May 2015 7:51

Simeon,

Are you a PERCo employee?

Thanks,
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby Simeon » 19 May 2015 9:53

Squelchtone wrote:Simeon,
Are you a PERCo employee?

Yes, I work in PERCo.
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby Simeon » 19 May 2015 9:55

Nice to meet everybody in this thread :)
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby Squelchtone » 19 May 2015 10:00

Simeon wrote:
Squelchtone wrote:Simeon,
Are you a PERCo employee?

Yes, I work in PERCo.


I was worried about this when I allowed FreeRider to post this thread. Does member FreeRider work for PERCo or resells their products ? I do not want this to become an advertisement for the lock company, we do not like advertisements or Spam posts on this forum.

Thank you gentlemen,
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Re: Electromechanical locks with new type of power supply

Postby tomasfuk » 19 May 2015 12:36

Simeon wrote:...The lock operation conditions are specified in its certificate: the lock is to be operated in premises with climate control, for example, in closed heated or cooled ventilated facilities and other rooms, including well-ventilated underground facilities (the product should be kept from direct and diffuse solar radiation, from atmospheric condensation, wind, sand, outer air dust and moisture condensation)...
Thank you for revealing this weakness which is not mentioned in your website.
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