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by **lock_assassin** » 10 Mar 2004 21:40

I should have lessons 16-20 in the next week or so. Lessons 1-15 were pretty easy but it sounds like they are getting tougher. I can usually finish a complete set of 5 lessons in a weekend. I will see how long the next set of lessons take because it sounds like we have to hand file another key. I really need more practice filing and hopefully they include a few extra keys. All in all I think the Foley-Belsaw Course is a good starting point. I may try hooking up with a locksmith that my dad knows who is ready to semi-retire. He does it part time now but has been a locksmith for 25 years. I know he wouldn't pay me much if at all but I think the knowledge from someone in the field that long is worth it's weight in gold.

lock_assassin

by **Chucklz** » 10 Mar 2004 22:00

I don't have a key machine, so I file all my keys by hand. Here is a quick tip that I've picked up that really helps things along, at least for me.

I do all my filing to depth using my Pippen files. But, to make nice looking, and smooth operating key, you need to have those nice sloped bits between cuts. I took a smallish fine cut square file, and ground one of the corners a bit, so that it was smooth and about 1mm in width. Keeping this smoothed part oriented towards the bottom of the key cut, I give a few strokes to give a nice slope to my cuts. Be gentle though, and try to not remove too much material.

by **Minus** » 10 Mar 2004 22:16

Chucklz: Thanks for the tips, ill try to apply them on my next key. As to my first attempt it was a failure pretty much, i kept having binding problems with one pin and i took a bit to much material off. I ended up getting the key stuck in the lock, i was able to get it out using a pick to push the binding pin down from the back of the lock. To top it all off i dropped a pin on the floor and that took oh say 20 mins to find. Im not discouraged though, im sure my second attempt will go better. They only provided 2 key blanks with this lesson so worst case sceanario ill be heading down to the local locksmith to buy a few blanks. I dont think 2 key blanks is really enough to learn the hand filing method(i would want to make several keys even if the first one came out perfect for practice). With the first lesson that required hand filing i received 4 blanks which is more then enough... But im not going to be nit picky, ill just chalk the first try up to experience.

by **Chucklz** » 10 Mar 2004 23:47

If you take a bit too much off, take a nail set, or anything similar and give the blank a good smack, right on the side immediately next to your cut. Your hit will deform the blank a little, and give you a few thousanths. I would suggest investing in a digital caliper from www.harborfreight.com Mine was 20 dollars US and I have found it invaluable for making keys.

by **plot** » 11 Mar 2004 4:29

i've seen plenty of internet sites where you can buy boxes of blank keys for 10-15$ (box of 50), if you REALLY feel like practicing, i'd get a box of kwikset keys and go at it.

by **whattodo** » 14 Mar 2004 15:51

Hello I am new to this forum. I do have a few questions to get me started. I am very interested in lockpicking and locksmithing. However all I would really like to be able to do would be to start a pop-a-lock type business like a mobile lock out service for people who have locked themselves out of their cars and the like. My questions regard this and are such as....
What would be the best course or courses to take for this type of venture? Would I need some sort of certification to get my license to do this type of work? Can I start a small sideline business just doing mobile lockout services? What is the best way to get started? Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me. It is greatly appreciated. Thanks again and have a great day.

by **marso** » 14 Mar 2004 19:39

whattodo, please do a search on the forum for "business" "lockout" and so forth. This has been covered a number of times. It would be nice to keep these questions in the same place.

by **davidgjr** » 18 Mar 2004 7:14

Minus,
I am on lesson 12 as we speak. If you need more blanks call them up and you will have them in 3 days free of charge. They sent me 5 extra blanks for the warded padlock with no hassle at all. Also, anyone in the fence about the course - If you need help and call them they are more than glad to help. That goes along way as far as I am concerned. Also - does anyone know of an automotive lockout course specifically for autos? Around here, the towing company's will do it and the police will do it, but from what I have heard something always gets tore up.

by **Minus** » 18 Mar 2004 18:06

davidgjr: I made the key pretty much perfect on my second try, i will remember that in the future though.

Im just finishing up lesson 20 which deals with masterkeying, I should be getting my key machine soon im pretty excited.

by **lock_assassin** » 21 Mar 2004 10:46

Ditto on that Minus. I just finished up with lessons 16-20 yesterday. I am glad I read Chucklz post (Thank you Chucklz!!!) before I started on this key. I was able to make the first key work because I took my time and cut very slowly, and that really boosted my confidence on hand filing keys. My dad used to say "I cut it off twice and it's still too short" whenever he got in a hurry and goofed something up so I try to remember that when I start to get in a hurry. The first key we had to make (warded) I just took off too much at a time. I screwed up the first 3 blanks and was able to make the 4th one work. The key blank for lesson 16 was very easy to file and after learning to take a few light passes and recheck everything that made a world of difference.

I liked the section on masterkeying. There is a lot more to it than I thought. Should be interesting with the next set of lessons having to masterkey 3 locks plus make a master key to fit all 3.

How were you able to do picking the lock on lesson 17 Minus??? After trying for a little while I was able to get it open with all 5 pins in. I just left the pins in the order they came out of the lock. I have been practicing with an old Schlage lockset my dad gave me and I started with 2 pins and have worked my way up to 4 right now. I really didn't expect to get the lesson 17 lock with all 5 pins but as soon as it popped I put the tape on the front and put it in the envelope!!!

Now that the lessons are getting more complicated it is getting fun. Getting closer to the key machine and diplomas!!! Sounds like we will probably graduate around the same time.

Good luck Minus...

lock_assassin

by **Varjeal** » 21 Mar 2004 15:28

Another sound piece of advice:

Think Thrice, Measure Twice, Cut/Drill ONCE.

by **Minus** » 21 Mar 2004 17:54

lock_assassin: I picked it in maybe 2-3 mins the first time, then i changed the pins to make it harder :wink:

, Knowing there was a lock to pick it was hard to focus on the other lessons so i just picked the lock then went back to work.

by **Chucklz** » 21 Mar 2004 19:26

Glad to help out whenever I can. Good luck with your masterkeying job. If I was doint that, I would write everything out before hand. Even though your doing a relatively small job, its easy to get confused.

by **Minus** » 22 Mar 2004 7:32

I just finished the master keying lesson, They had you master key 3 locks. The thing is though the system was setup for you and the keys already cut. You just had to setup the pins for the locks and it was done. In one way im happy about that being that it was alot eaiser to do the lesson. The hacker side of me wishes we had to setup our own system and do it from scratch. Thats ok though im sure ill get to setup plenty of masterkey systems in the future.

by **Varjeal** » 22 Mar 2004 9:48

Minus: You can setup your own master key systems just by hand writing it out (or charting on the computer). Masterkeying is an amazingly complex issue once you begin getting into multiple levels and unique situations. It's the perfect situation for math junkies, for sure.

Hopefully they went through MACS and cross-keying, and other rules that are in place in those lessons.

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