Dilemmas in servicing locks

[raimundo]

This is a new thread about dilemmas that are encountered in serviceing locks. (came up in another context, but I think it will be useful) Obviouly locks in england or europe will be different in the breakdowns and other servicing problems, so maybe the thread should be divided to areas, but anyway, here is my contribution to start it off.
Third floor apt, no possiblity of NDE except by the corridor door. key spins the cylinder, but is not moving the bolt. the tail piece has failed.
You can try to disinstall the lock by drilling for the mounting screws, or perhaps working under the door lasso trick to see if the thumbturn still operates the bolt.
In the actual case in question, the bolt itself was broken, the pawl was mounted in a zinc casting that had broken and fallen to a blocking position behind the bolt inside the steel chasis of the boltworks. the actual solution was luck, a sawsall on the bolt did not cut the bolt much, but it shook the blockage loose and the bolt could be withdrawn. took about an hour and a half. Tail pieces on cylinders fail from cheapness and wear, and incomplete reassembly. they make for real dilemmas.

[I Pik U]

Reminds me of an Apt. lockout I was called to.
This was an LSDA deadbolt, with a linkage system construction in the backset that has some pieces held together with a roll pin. The tennants key was turning in both dirrections, but the lock would not open.
I run through possable opening techniques, first one being drilling for the mounting bolts as mentioned above, but then I first grabbed a small pocket screwdriver and put it through the key head to give me more leverage. A forceful turn in the unlocked dirrection and click, she opens. A look of shock on both the tennant's and Super's faces, as it took me less than a minute to get the door open and they have been waiting for close to an hour. Turns out that linkage with the roll pin in the backset was getting jambed up, actually due to the bolt bottoming out into the concrete in the frame. A little pounding with a cold chisle to make a deeper hole, and replacing the backset as the Super had a spare lock available anyway, and the lock was good to go again.

[limerick007]

6.5 years late...

you should have turned the key left and right, sensed that the key was not sweeping
the whole arc from open to close and from that deduced that it was a sticking bolt.
the thing to do then would have been to apply light turning pressure to the opening
direction while 'bumping' the door to take momentary pressure off the bolt in the
strike hole. if that didn't work then use a pry bar to lift a little on the door and it
should release then. the bolt can bind in the strike hole, one of 8 ways, depending
on the fit of the door to the frame.

[Raymond]

This example was too easy. I felt bad performing it in front of the customer as I am sure they were surprised in a "I should have tried that way." Today I attended a a lock out where the door was locked with a large mag-lock. The door also had a standard lever. The lever was never supposed to be locked but someone had pushed in the lock button. The key turned but would not pull the bolt. So.... upon arrival I asked for the key, put it in the lock and turned it. It turned part way and stopped. Experience told me that the deadlatch button on the latch bolt had probably gone into the strike hole. (This always makes opening hard.) I simply pulled the door more closed, turned the key, and the door opened smoothly. My audience's mouths dropped from the ease of opening. Added some replacement door bumpers and I was on my way.

I have a few more similar examples but they border on destructive entry. This thread is awfully close to needing to be moved to advanced. Please be cautious with examples.

[Altashot]

I got a call to open up a bedroom. It turned out that it was only a privacy knob. I knelt there pretending to figure out how to open it while I was reaching for my change in my pocket. I took my time looking at my coins and found that the twonie (Canadian $2.00 coin) was almost just the right thickness to fit that little slot on the knob. I turned the coin clockwise and "pop". The customer went: "wow! That was fast!" I answered: "Ah! You know...That's what I do and...I have the right tools..."

Invoice written, payment collected. Next!

M.

[mhole]

My first ever lockout, I pushed the door near the top of the frame, just to feel how tight it was before loiding the latch, and the door swung open. The customer had been waiting for 20 minutes without pushing the door to see if it was actually locked!

[dll932]

I have run into many mortise locks where the spring on the thumbturn cam was broken. This would allow the tailpiece to rotate downward and jam the boltwork. Usually I was able to pass a long skinny pick through the keyway and move the cam enough to render the cylinder operable.

[smokingman]

One dillema I often had was whether to tell the customer that the problem they had was due to the previous work done by a competitor.
One example, I was called to service a ford ignition, I get there and see that the key turns all the way around but nothing happens.
I suspect a previous job done wrong, so I asked if the customer had any other problems with the cars locks and sure enough he had called a competiors buisness because he lost his keys and needed new ones.
He said the other guy had made the key from the another lock on the car .
I surmised what had been done because I had seen it before in anther lock job done by this same guy and what he had done was impression the key from the ignition instead of the door, and in the process had broken the retaining tab on the back of the cylinder
shell that holds it in the steering column.
I decided to keep silent as finger pointing is not going to look professional and would not fix the problem at hand ,but it was annoying that the customer was thinking that the other guy had sabotaged his car in order to get "repeat buisiness" to make more money , as some shoddy handy men have been known to do.
I had worked at the same shop with this guy and he really just has enough knowledge of automotive locks to get himself in a bind, like using a slim jim too hard and pulling the rods loose from the clip or breaking the retaining tabs on ignitions and when the customer called back he would dodge the call saying he was too busy and get somone else to do the work.
He lost that job in less than 3 months, and went out on his own thinking he had some experience and could say I used to work at such and such place and now have my own business, using our reputation to boost his own. I don't know if he has a buisiness liscense or not since he
works from a van and his number is his cell phone number. No real brick and morter shop.
But it is not my job to scrutinize others and enforce the laws, he is trying to feed his family
and has no education beyond high school that I know of.
I think his shoddy work will soon put him out of buisness , but in the meantime I think he is making us all look bad.
I am not the lock police, so I just tell the customers to always call us .

[alockguru]

service a ford ignition

what he had done was impression the key from the ignition instead of the door

I love impressioning but I have never impressioned the 8 cuts before. Little bit spoiled and always used ez reader in till I picked up the 8 cut lishi tool, I've used it every time since. Super quick and accurate.
Do you just straight impression them or are you working with a derterminator to speed things up? How difficult would you rate them to impression? They are pretty crappy locks, I reken you use pretty light force?

[alockguru]

One dillema I often had was whether to tell the customer that the problem they had was due to the previous work done by a competitor.

I usually don't say anything but a few weeks ago I ran across a pretty bad one I just had to run by the customer.

Turns out a previous locksmith a few years earlier did a "repair" on his 01 malibu ignition. The way the guy did it was to drill through ignition housing then drill out the retainer. Once the cylinder was out he dremeled that little retainer that holds the plug in so he could just push the plug out without turning the switch to line it up. Then it looks like he just popped the cap and maybe cleaned the wafers and put the originals back in (I assume since i was back out to do the same job a few years later and they where pretty nasty). Then re-installed the same heavily damaged cylinder (with no retainer on plug or MRD housing) and to hold it all together? One wood screw hiding behind the face. Its seams like he did a lot more work to pretend to fix it then what it takes to actually fix these the right way.

[smokingman]

service a ford ignition

what he had done was impression the key from the ignition instead of the door

I love impressioning but I have never impressioned the 8 cuts before. Little bit spoiled and always used ez reader in till I picked up the 8 cut lishi tool, I've used it every time since. Super quick and accurate.
Do you just straight impression them or are you working with a derterminator to speed things up? How difficult would you rate them to impression? They are pretty crappy locks, I reken you use pretty light force?

I have not had to impression any newer vehicle keys , I am disabled/retired now and most of what I ran into was cars from the 60's and 70's .
They were fairly easy if if not a side bar type , then it had to be picked and read before
I made they key on the machine.
I always impressioned from the passenger door since it gets used less and is therefore in better shape.
Just did it by tried and true eyeball , vise grips, pippin file and a blank key.

I always use very light bumping when impressioning any key.
Autos have flexy metal doors and if wiggled too hard they can be damaged as well as
wafers and clips, even on older thicker car doors.
Rods and such linked at the lock can come off and make a job get bigger as well as embarassing
for you if something pops loose.
I used jims and such tools with caution as they can pull rods loose if pulled too hard.
If other ways would work I would use them if possible.
I still like to keep my skills sharp by picking , impressioning keys , and making things
as a hobby.
I was a locksmith and a gunsmith for years and making small tools/ parts is in my blood.

[alockguru]

ahh i See I assumed too much I just figured since you were matching the door in the ignition that it was 8cuts. I am guessing now that it was the old h27 keyway where the door and ignition were the same.

[smokingman]

ahh i See I assumed too much I just figured since you were matching the door in the ignition that it was 8cuts. I am guessing now that it was the old h27 keyway where the door and ignition were the same.

Ya they were the same back then.
I really don't like the beer can cars and plastic guns and locks they have today.

[smokingman]

One dillema I often had was whether to tell the customer that the problem they had was due to the previous work done by a competitor.

I usually don't say anything but a few weeks ago I ran across a pretty bad one I just had to run by the customer.

Turns out a previous locksmith a few years earlier did a "repair" on his 01 malibu ignition. The way the guy did it was to drill through ignition housing then drill out the retainer. Once the cylinder was out he dremeled that little retainer that holds the plug in so he could just push the plug out without turning the switch to line it up. Then it looks like he just popped the cap and maybe cleaned the wafers and put the originals back in (I assume since i was back out to do the same job a few years later and they where pretty nasty). Then re-installed the same heavily damaged cylinder (with no retainer on plug or MRD housing) and to hold it all together? One wood screw hiding behind the face. Its seams like he did a lot more work to pretend to fix it then what it takes to actually fix these the right way.

"One wood screw hiding behind the face."