The new Foley Belsaw Professional Locksmithing Course

[Svensontini]

Hi Guys,

I saw the Folsey Belsaw Professional Locksmithing Course thread from 2004 that continued to 2008 and it seemed that everyone was happy with the course, the cost/benefit ratio seemed good.

Link to that thread:
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=1073

I also saw the thread from 2017/2018 where Foley-Belsaw was auctioned off and one of their instru.rctors bought and is now offering a revamped locksmithing course that can be taken online or by traditional correspondence (though you pay a $100 premium to do so).

Link to that thread:
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=64551&hilit=end+of+an+era

Looking at the site, I also see that the FB 200 key machine has been discontinued, but they are still carrying some parts for them.

Back in '04 $600 with a key machine seemed a good deal. Today it runs $995 for an equivalent course:

$400 for the online course
$150 for the basic supplies (you don't send locks in any more for grading, you buy and keep them)
$75 if you want printed books (which I probably would as they'd be nice for future reference)
$370 for an HPC Mini-Speedex Duplicator, which isn't a bad price on it and from what I gather, HPC does make good quality stuff.

You are also given one year to complete the course, if you go beyond that you are charged a $5 a month extension fee.

It's kind of hard to do apples to apples comparisons, but using a couple value of money calculators, it appears that $600 in 2004 dollars is equivalent to about $800 in today's money, so the course runs about $195 more than it used to - but you get to keep your practice locks, and you used to have to pay shipping back for your practice locks, so there's a little there that's unaccounted for. They claim the course has been expanded to include the more recent developments in locks, so there may be some added value there.

So I guess the questions are:

Is the course still a good foundation to build on? I imagine it is as I imagine they just expanded the new course and left the bulk of it unchanged.

Does the new owner make several offers and drop the price a bit if you don't respond right away like the original owners did? If so, what is their new bottom dollar price?

Is the HPC Mini-Speedex equivalent, or more capable, than the FB-200? Was the FB-200 it's own design, or a rebadged product from another company? Are the high wear parts adaptable to components from other machines, or is the parts supply for them slowly drying up?

Thanks!

Steve

[bitbuster]

I don't know if Rich's new FB Locksmith course is any better now. The FB 200 was their original that goes back to the '50s or even earlier. The early FB 200 used a larger motor. The one advantage to the machine was the depth micrometer. When I took the course in 1978 the total cost was $329 + whatever incurred postage to return lessons. It was just Belsaw at the time and they later acquired Foley and were located in KC,MO. I still have the Belsaw 200 that came with the course.

[billdeserthills]

Lots of people have taken the Foley-Belsaw course, but the vast majority likely never find work as locksmiths

[Svensontini]

Yeah, I get that most don't become locksmiths.
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I work at a facility for the mentally handicapped. We're a large facility, our little city actually with 25 buildings, our own utility system, etc.. We had a "lock guy", I hesitate to call him a locksmith as he was basically a carpenter who also did some locksmithing. He was coming up on retirement so a few years ago they sent a couple of us to a National Locksmiting Institute certification course and I did earn my certification. Unfortunately I was hit with some medical issues, I've been hit with a nasty eye disease and I'm now low vision, and I have heart issues. I was off work recooping for a good bit, then when I did come back I didn't help with the lockshop much. The previous guy has retired now. The other guy who took the course with me has taken the lock shop over, but he's not nearly as skilled as the previous guy, and he's looking at retiring next spring, so I've been helping out more and more. I do pretty good, not much I can't do, I just need a headlamp and patience. I've been able to pick a couple locks, which was kind of fun!
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It's been a while since the NLI course though, so I'd like a refresher, though my job is pretty simple as we use mostly Russwin Corbin, so I don't see a wide variation of products like someone in the wild would. I like playing with locks as a hobby though, so just want to expand my knowledge a bit, and maybe make my job a little easier to boot.
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I'm kind of considering just picking one of the old FB courses off fleaBay as I'm not really concerned with the certification.
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I looked at the Society of Professional Locksmiths course tonight, but the flashplayer version sucks for my vision - I do much better with a black background and white text and there's no way to flip it with the flash player. I see that CLK Supplies has it in a printed version for a hundred bucks though, and I can deal with printed stuff fairly well (the option to print from the flashplayer is there, but when I print it prints about a quarter of the page, it's like it's blown up and zooming, etc. in my browser has no effect), so I may order that.
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I don't really care about the key machine...we have a Blitz and an Ilco at work, it'd just be nice to have one at home for playing, and it may make another fun project...I program Arduino microcontrollers and I have a 3D printer, so it may be fun to put some sensors and possibly stepper motors on an inexpensive machine like the FB 200 for code cutting.
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TTYL,
. <-----------these keep format as I have to type with BIG fonts and convert to smaller and sometimes format gets lost without them.
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Steve

[Jacob Morgan]

Hi Guys,
...
Is the HPC Mini-Speedex equivalent, or more capable, than the FB-200? Was the FB-200 it's own design, or a rebadged product from another company? Are the high wear parts adaptable to components from other machines, or is the parts supply for them slowly drying up?
...

The Speedex has 4-way jaws and will grip a wider variety of keys better than the 1-way jaws of the FB200. As a duplicator of cylinder keys, the Speedex should be better.

But, the FB200 can cut flat keys. It slow going and tedious, but with some optional parts (or with some shaft collars and a dial caliper) the FB200 can cut keys by code. The FB200 depth and spacing can be calibrated quickly. So the FB200 can do some things the Speedex can not.

Foley-Belsaw's main business was making blade sharpening equipment (and still is--they got tired of messing with correspondence courses) and the FB200's were made in house. The main shaft and bushings I think are off-the shelf, and the other parts are proprietary. To Bill's point, a lot of FB200's are still out there new in the box from people who took the course then never did anything with it. They show up on eBay, at estate auctions, etc.

[Svensontini]

Thanks Jacob,
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It sounds like it may be a good candidate for Arduino playing then, i.e. accurate enough to be worth using. I imagine the castings are proprietary, but I'll bet the cutter blades and stuff can be adapted.
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I'll start keeping an eye out on fleaBay, Craigslist, etc. for a good inexpensive one to play with.
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Take care,
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Steve