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Side bars impressioning?

A skill known and practiced for years by seasoned locksmiths, impressioning a working key from a blank is a popular new addition in locksport circles everywhere. Get your blanks and Pippin files and get busy!

Side bars impressioning?

Postby Ske13tonKey » 12 Aug 2015 8:37

The more i reading about impressioning the more i want to get into it and the more questions i have. In all the competitions i saw on youtube they using only simple 5 pin locks. But is there any way to impression locks with side bar like CX5 (Scorpion)?
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Re: Side bars impressioning?

Postby MBI » 13 Aug 2015 15:38

High security locks are in the advanced forums.
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Re: Side bars impressioning?

Postby Davis » 23 Aug 2015 21:49

(Moderators, feel free to move/edit this if you deem necessary)

I admire your enthusiasm and willingness to try something difficult. :) There is an old adage that nothing is impossible, only improbable. As one actively working in the locksmith industry, I would say that impressioning high security locks definitely classes as highly improbable.

Firstly, inherent to high security systems is the aspect of key control. You can only get the keys from a locksmith, and any reputable locksmith would rightfully question (and probably deny) your attempt to get blank keys.

Secondly, high security locks like CX5, ASSA, Medeco, and Schlage Primus rely on 2 locking mechanisms, a) the pin stack and b) a sidebar mechanism in which other parts of the lock have to interact with the key to allow the sidebar to retract. The pin stack and the sidebar must both be correct for the lock to open; having only one or the other correct will not open the lock. This means that even if you were able to get key blanks, you would have no guarantee that the part of the key operating the sidebar would be correct for your lock.

Beyond this, you have to consider that a) high security locks are specifically designed to resist all forms of unauthorized entry, b) they are made to much tighter tolerances than ordinary locks, and c) they often incorporate harder materials than normal (such as steel pins and nickel-silver blanks).

So theoretically, it might be possible, but I would definitely discourage trying; it isn't worth the time and effort that you would be putting in. If you need another key, it's much easier and safer to contact your landlord, local locksmith, or whoever else may be the appropriate party. Beyond that, like MBI said, high security locks are in the advanced forums. :wink:
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Re: Side bars impressioning?

Postby MBI » 24 Aug 2015 11:23

I think that's a pretty fair summation.
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Re: Side bars impressioning?

Postby DR_WOLFSBURG » 19 Sep 2015 16:11

Really Love the way you think, Its a really good question. The understanding of most side bars compared to a everest primus or a medeco i wouldn't even try lol I would pick or bypass before i would even drill them. but i never would have thought to impressioning them. id say try it? see what happens. I don't know how or what kind of marks you would get from a byaxel cut.
When life closes a door, Breach the wall and walk in like a boss.
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Re: Side bars impressioning?

Postby MBI » 19 Sep 2015 16:44

DR_WOLFSBURG wrote:I don't know how or what kind of marks you would get from a byaxel cut.

I don't doubt that you could impression a Medeco for pin depths. This is pure speculation but I'd also venture to guess that an experienced eye could differentiate the location difference between fore and aft cuts on Biaxial locks. However, I think that reliably getting the pin rotations from impressioning is doubtful, and visually decoding pin rotations through the keyway is usually only possible on the first few pins unless you have an amazing scope, AND if you have pins with open, full length sidebar grooves (no ARX pins).

Also consider that very few Medeco keyways are readily available as generic blanks. Cost and availability of factory Medeco blanks might make impressioning impractical for most people, on any Medeco that doesn't have generic blanks available.
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