March of the Scooters

[AlwaysLearningDavid]

Hey everyone,

So the smith that I'm apprenticing with is next to a scooter store and as a result we have a non-stop flow of scooters to make keys for.

And I have tried and tried and tried and tried some more to get done impressioning.

I've tried sharpies, soot, magnifying lenses, natural light, knife edges, and knifed valleys. And no matter what i try I just can not seem to get the hang of it.

I usually find the starting marks alright, but after a few passes I find myself desperately looking for marks so much that I start to see ones that aren't there (you can only look at 1/10th of an inch of brass in sunlight for so long until you start seeing marks that aren't there).

Observing others I can see their marks as clear as day, do maybe I'm just not giving it enough torque. But if that were the case, then why do I have so many keys snap and the other guys and my shop don't?

I feel like I'm completely hopeless.

And I'd say that 90% of the jobs we get are this exact ignition:


Which has a plate sitting in die cast so I'm wondering if i can pull the plate off to pull the cylinder and look at the waffers to hand file the key.

Any suggestions?

[billdeserthills]

Sounds to me like you need a loupe,
when you can see what you are looking at you won't need to imagine seeing marks
Also the wafers found in cycle locks are some of the thinnest & flimsiest I have seen
When my key stops marking I make it thinner with my flat file, the key must be thinner
than the wafer if you want it to make a good mark

The reason you are breaking more keys is you are getting mad or trying to hard. I
used to use a #4LN or 4BN visegrips, they are very small and it helped me keep
from turning too hard when impressioning, or you can try using two fingers, you
shouldn't need more pressure, the wafers are very small and fragile anyhow

Most of this type lock have a retainer holding the plug in place
years ago ignition locks had a poke hole--just because the poke hole
is missing doesn't mean there isn't something to poke

[Jacob Morgan]

Gordon made a good impressioning tutorial here: http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=62259 If you have not read it yet you should. It has a section on disc tumbler locks.

MBA sells a nifty magnifying glass that goes on the end of a mini-mag lite. Highly recommended. It magnifies and lights up the key as well, I don't think I could do much impressioning without out one. My close up vision is not as good as it was ten years ago. http://mbausa.com/10x-key-impressioning-magnifier/

Regarding disc tumblers, if you are not having any luck, even with a good magnifier, then you could try polishing the cuts in the key with some 600+ grit sandpaper wrapped around a small diameter wooden dowel. That may make the rubbing-style marks of discs stand out. (For pin tumblers one actually wants a semi-rough finish so the peaks of each individual file tooth cut can be dented by the pins.)

Are you sure the blanks you use are long enough to pick up all the tumblers? Try counting tumblers then counting marks.

Also try taking things slowly with the filing, if one cut goes too deep then that may put a stop to any more marks. It is easy to try to hurry up and over-do filing down a mark.

Never had any luck with, or use for, knife edges, but everyone is different.

You could try getting an ordinary cam lock, with a key, and try impressioning it, comparing the filed blank to the factory key from time to time. Could help with trouble shooting your technique and building confidence.

If still no luck with impressioning, you could look into sight reading. Robert Sieveking has a couple of books on the topic, I have not read them, but the books of his I have read were good. http://sievekingprodco.com/locksmithguidebooks.html Apparently some automotive locksmiths prefer to make keys this way when they can as it places no stress on the lock.

[AlwaysLearningDavid]

Most of this type lock have a retainer holding the plug in place
years ago ignition locks had a poke hole--just because the poke hole
is missing doesn't mean there isn't something to poke

Unfortunately this specific ignition (the one that we see the most of) does not have a retaining wafer. It does make things easy when they do though, that's for sure.

[AlwaysLearningDavid]

Gordon made a good impressioning tutorial here: http://www.lockpicking101.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=62259 If you have not read it yet you should. It has a section on disc tumbler locks.

Thank you!

I can already tell that Gordon is a big help on the thread.

[billdeserthills]

Have you tried taking apart the gas tank lock & make a key from that?
The compartment lock will need a replacement cap to take it apart