Falcon Conventional Cylinder

[davidjhagar]

I took over in maintenance of a facility with Falcon locks. I’m trying to replace some of the locks with new Falcon deadlatchs and master key them. The D241P shows to use a conventional pin. I’ve tried Schlage and of course my SFIC kit seems to be wrong. What type of pin would conventional refer to? Arrow maybe? Also, my key decoders for I/C core and Schlage don’t appear correct. Pin match being the issue... any help is greatly appreciated!! I have several licks to get completed in short order.

[GWiens2001]

What blanks do you use? Falcon made their locks in several formats. Can we get a pic of what is currently being used?

Gordon

[davidjhagar]

They are FA3 blanks. I’ll try to get a pic posted.

[davidjhagar]

G key way.

[GWiens2001]

According to the HPC DSD listing, am showing Falcon key cut depths as being officially .25” increments.

1 = .339
2 = .314
3 = .289
4 = .264
5 = .239
6 = .214
7 = .189

If the diameter of the plug is .500”, then subtract the cut depth to get key pin lengths. If it is master keyed, then you will need to figure the depth of cut for the key pin and the master pin(s).

Based on those depths, key pin lengths should be as follows:

1 = .161
2 = .186
3 = .211
4 = .236
5 = .261
6 = .286
7 = .311

Hope that helps. Keep in mind that a locksmith could have pinned it to any standards they chose. It is not an uncommon trick of the trade.

Gordon

[davidjhagar]

Thank you very much!! Ill try to work through a couple of locks to match this guidance.

[Raymond]

Also look to Weiser pins and depths.

[stratmando]

.025?

[Raymond]

Sorry, I snapped out an incomplete answer for the Weiser pin dimensions. The drop is .018". All of the original Falcon keys, (G), I have seen used these numbers. Master wafers are multiples of .018. MACS is 6. The plug diameter is .5". I have no other experience with Falcon using anything different. I double checked this by referring to my Manual of Masterkeying, by Gerry Finch. In it these are the only pin sizes listed.

0=.165
1=.183
2=.201
3=.219
4=.237
5=.255
6=.273
7=.291
8=.309
9=.327

[davidjhagar]

Thank you again for the information!! Sorry for the delay in reply but this got pushed to backburner through the holidays. I was able to work through several locks using a .003 kit and the weiser pin depths. These appear to align with no issues.

How would I take my current master key and create a list of all possible used keys or bittings that would work with current master?

My trouble now is that I bought new Falcon D200 deadlatches. I was trying to use factory cut keys and just add master pins. Im on my 4th factory keyed cylinder and end up with all having one or more .018 master pins (wafer). I dont have .018 and they would be too thin to use as a master pin.

Is their a spreadsheet I could create a list with or a worksheet?

[billdeserthills]

Thank you again for the information!! Sorry for the delay in reply but this got pushed to backburner through the holidays. I was able to work through several locks using a .003 kit and the weiser pin depths. These appear to align with no issues.

How would I take my current master key and create a list of all possible used keys or bittings that would work with current master?

My trouble now is that I bought new Falcon D200 deadlatches. I was trying to use factory cut keys and just add master pins. Im on my 4th factory keyed cylinder and end up with all having one or more .018 master pins (wafer). I dont have .018 and they would be too thin to use as a master pin.

Is their a spreadsheet I could create a list with or a worksheet?

I would not use anything thinner than a .020 master pin, they have a habit of becoming forced between the plug & the cylinder when they are too thin

[davidjhagar]

Thank you again for the information!! Sorry for the delay in reply but this got pushed to backburner through the holidays. I was able to work through several locks using a .003 kit and the weiser pin depths. These appear to align with no issues.

How would I take my current master key and create a list of all possible used keys or bittings that would work with current master?

My trouble now is that I bought new Falcon D200 deadlatches. I was trying to use factory cut keys and just add master pins. Im on my 4th factory keyed cylinder and end up with all having one or more .018 master pins (wafer). I dont have .018 and they would be too thin to use as a master pin.

Is their a spreadsheet I could create a list with or a worksheet?

I would not use anything thinner than a .020 master pin, they have a habit of becoming forced between the plug & the cylinder when they are too thin

Very good to know and I have found some existing locks with this problem. Finding a way to map all compatible bittings would help me whole lot!! Is their a spreadsheet for this or expensive software about the only way?

[mastersmith]

Conventional wisdom is NOT TO USE a one pin increment when pinning a core. Master key systems for these locks will be written with only odd or even cuts in any chamber. This guaranties there will be no less than a 2 cut difference. That means a .036 master wafer will be the thinnest used. If you can get into a master keying class you will benefit greatly. Check with your distributers and factory reps, they may be able to hook you up. Especially in these days of Zoom meetings. Lots of training is happening online, at reduced cost or free.

[davidjhagar]

Thank you mastersmith!! Any books recommended? I will also check in to a class or two. Seems walking in to this situation of multiple locksmiths over a period of 20 years and no documentation I will be learning what happened for quite some time. I was an apprentice some 28 yrs ago and remeber some but not nealry enough as my career did not take me down the road of becoming a Master Locksmith. Though who knew I would be where I am now and need that knowledge again. Enjoying the ride of life and every learning experience!

[jeffmoss26]

the bible of masterkeying in my eyes would be Master Keying By The Numbers, available at www.locksoft.com