New "Flat Key" Kryptonites/Similar Locks

[v12v12]

Good description Dimmy, and I understand the cautious approach.
However, if v12 had done a little researching of locks which use disks, then searched, he'd have found this thread which has some excellent pictures of Abloy locks stripped and partially stripped.

Scroll down to Cormu's fourth post:
viewtopic.php?t=415&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

Due to the nature of these types of lock, there aren't very many people who can pick them manually.

THanks for the link... it's not that I didn't do research, I'm new, I've never heard of Abloy, nor wasn't sure just what to look for.

And about the new Kryptonite/copy-cats style locks that use discs - I was simply nothing that unlike that Abloy in the picture, the Kryptonite's key entrance is rather large and retangular with a slight rounding of the ends, which would accept a larger attack tool, which aids in a much more secured and tranferable rotational force Vs that abloy with it's semi-round key way/slimmer design.


Dimmy,
Thanks for the description, I see/understand now. Seems a lot more secure than just pins alone.

[TOWCH]

That aren't actually any pins in these locks unless you know something I don't.

[v12v12]

That aren't actually any pins in these locks unless you know something I don't.

Is this reply to me or the much more knowledgeable seniors?

[Mad Mick]

And about the new Kryptonite/copy-cats style locks that use discs - I was simply nothing that unlike that Abloy in the picture, the Kryptonite's key entrance is rather large and retangular with a slight rounding of the ends, which would accept a larger attack tool, which aids in a much more secured and tranferable rotational force Vs that abloy with it's semi-round key way/slimmer design.


Dimmy,
Thanks for the description, I see/understand now. Seems a lot more secure than just pins alone.

The part in bold type is puzzling me as to what you are referring. Ignore the profile of the keyway, this is just confusing you.
If the lock has disks and a sidebar, the principle is the same as the Abloy - all the disks have to be rotated (in accordance to the key bitting) to the point which allows the sidebar to drop into the notches. Then, and only then, will the plug be allowed to rotate. The inherent problem with trying to pick this style of lock, is applying tension.

Let's use a normal pin-tumbler lock as an example:
You insert a tension wrench into the front of the keyway and apply pressure, which traps pins across the shear line.

In disk locks, using a normal tension wrench would only result in applying tension to the first few visible disks, depending on the length of the tang. Invariably, these first few disks are designed to allow the sidebar to engage before they hit the stops (assuming the remaining disks are correctly rotated). Since the sidebar is supported across the edges of the remaining un-tensioned disks, and assuming there are no false notches, these first few disks 'connected' to the tension wrench would rotate to the stops, which is past where they should be. This would inhibit the sidebar from dropping into the notches of correctly-set disks, should you be lucky enough to get them into that position.

I haven't had very much time 'hands-on' with my Abloys, so I can't really give you much more than this, but I hope it's opened your eyes a bit more.

Regards.

[v12v12]

And about the new Kryptonite/copy-cats style locks that use discs - I was simply nothing that unlike that Abloy in the picture, the Kryptonite's key entrance is rather large and retangular with a slight rounding of the ends, which would accept a larger attack tool, which aids in a much more secured and tranferable rotational force Vs that abloy with it's semi-round key way/slimmer design.

The part in bold type is puzzling me as to what you are referring. Ignore the profile of the keyway, this is just confusing you.
If the lock has disks and a sidebar, the principle is the same as the Abloy - all the disks have to be rotated (in accordance to the key bitting) to the point which allows the sidebar to drop into the notches. Then, and only then, will the plug be allowed to rotate. The inherent problem with trying to pick this style of lock, is applying tension.

Let's use a normal pin-tumbler lock as an example:
You insert a tension wrench into the front of the keyway and apply pressure, which traps pins across the shear line.

In disk locks, using a normal tension wrench would only result in applying tension to the first few visible disks, depending on the length of the tang. Invariably, these first few disks are designed to allow the sidebar to engage before they hit the stops (assuming the remaining disks are correctly rotated). Since the sidebar is supported across the edges of the remaining un-tensioned disks, and assuming there are no false notches, these first few disks 'connected' to the tension wrench would rotate to the stops, which is past where they should be. This would inhibit the sidebar from dropping into the notches of correctly-set disks, should you be lucky enough to get them into that position.

I haven't had very much time 'hands-on' with my Abloys, so I can't really give you much more than this, but I hope it's opened your eyes a bit more.

Regards.

I see/understand what you mean. I was just trying to figure out if the larger (as in wider and more rectangular) key entrance on the Kryptonite style locks would aid in someone inserting a tool and trying to strip out the internals/parts either by over rotation or some kind of dent-puller style attack. Thank you for the indepth description.