NewB: Locks, Security, and Safe advice

[digital_blue]

**head pops up... looks around.... drops down again**

[illusion]

**head pops up... looks around.... drops down again**

I've got a mental picture of those whack-a-mole games, but since you're an admin I'm stumped over who's hammer you're avoiding

[Chrispy]

Vent holes, hehehe....

[lawdog]

Last night I took a burglary call. Unknown persons broke into a house, went upstairs, and found a 300 lbs safe in the master bedroom. Of course it wasn't bolted down. They slid the safe across the carpet and down the hardwood stairs. Slid it across the beautiful hardwood floors and out the back door into a waiting pickup truck I presume. Pushed it off the back deck right into the bed and away they went.

Tore the stairs and hardwood up pretty bad. Bolting a safe down is a very good thing.

I finally broke down and bought a safe. My original plan was to buy a small personal safe for my bedroom and a larger gun safe for the basement. I ended up just buying a liberty safe like this one.

http://www.libertysafe.com/safe_colonial.lasso

Cost $800 during the Chistmas sales. Took 4 of us and a winch to get it into the basement. But once we got it into the basement we moved it on dollies. Bolted into the concrete with 1/2 bolts and anchors. I am very happy with it. Definetly a fire safe. I think it would deter the average burglar however a determined thief and some time could probably comprimise the safe.

[devildog]

That should work out just fine for you. When I mentioned 'cheap fire safes', I was generally refering to Sentry's. Something like that is going to have a good group 2 combo lock on it, and there's no way you'd get it open with hand tools; you'd have to manipulate it or drill it and scope it, and either one of those is not going to be done by anyone who would spend their time breaking into your house unless you'll be keeping a few million in jewelry or something in that safe Nah, any joe blow burlgar would take one look at that safe and go the other way.

[specialist]

The Cobalt product line isn't bad either. They are fairly cheap, and offer fire-resistance. I'm not sure if they are a part of AMSEC or not though.

[Auto45]

I re-key the locks on a friends home, some one broke in there home, they took the car keys with here home keys on it, they must have use a truck they took a lot of stuff.

He has a safe bolted down real good to floor and used it everyday,he got tired of unlocking it all the time so that night he left the door open on the safe, he was a rare coin collector, all was gone.

The police were there when I was doing the locks making there report, they reported he left the safe open.
His insurances will not payout on any of the stuff he had in the safe,because he left it unlocked.

So not only bolt you safe to the wall / floor, make sure you keep if locked.
auto

[Grudge]

<SOAPBOX>Although I don't think I need to tell lawdog, but I think it is worth saying: You need to protect your safe.

Given a determined and experinced burglar, he/she will be able to compromise your safe, or any safe, given the tools (which they will probably bring) and the time. So you have to work hard to take time away from a thief.

Besides screwing it down and keeping it locked, a blaring alarm is going to let a burglar know that he only has a handful of minutes and not an hour. Bright lighting is going to make lugging a safe into the back of a pickup an unattractive option. Placing the safe in an inconvient spot to remove (like in a basement, darn that gravity!), watchdogs, good door locks, reinforced door jams, even nosey neighbors all can help protect your safe because they slow down the thief's entry and exit and bring unwanted attention.

You can think of a safe as your inner ring of security, but it shouldn't be the only ring. </SOAPBOX>

[Chrispy]

You can think of a safe as your inner ring of security, but it shouldn't be the only ring.

Indeed.

[The Wanderer]

You'll have to excuse my ignorance here. Everything I know about safes would fit into a thimble, but wouldn't it be possible for a common criminal to compromise this with an oxy/acetylene set up? The tanks they make now a days are very portable. I'm guessing you'd need "intimate knowledge" to know where to cut to pull this off. The Liberty safe looks very sturdy. I'd be willing to bet that even if you knew what you were doing it would take quite a long time to burn your way through this. Am I right?

[raimundo]

that cable show, 'ittakesathief' where they have that jon guy either break a window or climb on the roof to get in and then do a security 'makeover' always puts in a little safe in some closet. this is often bolted to the threequarter inch board of the closet shelf, which itself is probably held on with several 8penny nails. Its always interesting to see the guy break in, and he seems interested in a lot of the cachevaches he can carry away, but when he comes back, after the makeover, he never breaks a window, and never defeats the alarm. the most interesting show was the mercedes mechanics shop, where he didn't break in at all, he appeared in one of the cars inside the shop. how long will it be til some burglar who cases these places by watching the show will do the same thing.

[Grudge]

The Liberty safe looks very sturdy. I'd be willing to bet that even if you knew what you were doing it would take quite a long time to burn your way through this. Am I right?

Notice that the Liberty is rated a UL Residential Security Container? That only means it is designed to resist 5 minutes against powertools on all sides. Notice also that the metal is 12 guage steel, that is about 1/10th of an inch thick. Again, that is not much BUT it means you need some sort of powered equipment and that it will take some time and make a lot of noise. The only other way in is to manipulate the dial, which with a group 2 S&G is doable, but require skill and time (10 minutes to 2 hours for someone who knows what they are doing, or two weeks if it was me ). Again, you are just upping the ante from having the stuff locked in a closet which probably wouldn't stand up to a couple of swift kicks.

[lawdog]

I am guessing it would take me about 15 minutes to break into my safe. Probably try cutting through it. The sheet metal is not very thick but the fireboard is. Die grinder, sawsall, torch, would be the minimum. Torch probably wouldn't work too well on the fireboard. Would probably damage the contents too. The quality is night and day difference between Sentry and Liberty.

I don't think there would be a way to steal the safe out of the basement. It is bolted into conrete in a room downstairs. The 1/2" bolts have a high tensile strength.

The safe is more then adequate protection for what I put in it. Now if I was a jeweler, collector of valuable items, or had anything of significant value then I wold look at spending more money and step up to a commercial safe. But for home use to store guns, cash, records, and valuables this safe is perfect. Also the saying buy the biggest you can afford is very true. I allready have filled up the safe quite a bit. Still need to buy more guns to fill it up.

Gander Montain, Cabela's, and other gun stores have safes on display. Looking at each one you can get a good idea on what you are paying for in terms of quality, protection, and finish.

Its a nice looking safe but I plan on putting it in a closet when I remodel. I don't want to advertise its presence and the confined space would present a challenge with no room to compromise the sides of the safe.

[Grudge]

The quality is night and day difference between Sentry and Liberty.

I am not really familiar with the Liberty line, but I would have a tendacy to agree. Sentry does make very effective (and inexpensive) fire resistant containers, however their security is generally pretty terrible (particularly on those same fire resistant models). I can open up the Sentry safes at my company with two items you could find in a desk drawer, and do it in under a minute . However their role is primarily fire protection, so this is not such a major concern.

[specialist]

The Liberty line is top-notch. Especially their Presidential category of safes. My company had to open one of these after the relocker got set off. It wasn't easy, and it took a very long time.