Old - non BS Securefast mortise lock.

[Sbecspeledrx]

I'm having a bit of trouble with opening an old non BS Securefast mortise lock. And was wondering if you folks could give me any tips. The lock was a little stiff, and in trying to force it the customer has snapped the spade off the key in the lock.

I don't have a 2 in 1 pick, but do have some overlifter picks and some mortise lock wires. When I first put the overlifting pick in I couldn't turn the overlifting part to the locking position, something (The spade or mangled levers i presume) was blocking it, but a bit of a feel with the wires seems to have freed that up and now the overlifter pick fits fine - and I can lift whatever levers are left in there. But I cannot seem to get it to snag and throw the bolt. How is the bolt thrown on these locks? I've never seen one before and never had a chance to look at the guts. If the lock is on the left hand side of the door is the bolt throwing bit still at the back of the lock? It may be that the bolt throwing part of my pick is too short, but as it only just fits the lock I feel that is unlikely - Though I do have some fresh overlifting picks to take to the job tommorow just in case.

I've also had a bit of a feel inside with the wires but no luck.

[pinky]

it can be a nasty little beast , overlifting is often not effective due to the anti picks on each lever, a 2 in 1 pick is your best bet, though as you dont have one, 2 wires is your other option.

if left mounted the talon will be at the 11 o clock position at the back of the lock case, some early versions had some warding on to make things harder too.

the good news is that there is only 5 lever heights to contend with, and there will almost certainly be a No 1 or 2 height in one of the end 3 positions.
pick a mm at a time, if the lever enters a false gate having lifted only up to 4mm its safe to assume its a top fence anti pick and needs lifting high next time, this allows you to quickly id the highs and lows, allowing you to pick high lifts then nudge lows to gate.

[Sbecspeledrx]

Thanks for the help Pinky. In the absence of a 2 in 1 pick I had a go for a little while with the wires, but then decided the job was beyond my capabilities. So walked away. I wish I'd bodged it now, and so does the customer! I was going to charge him £45 for going around last night at 7pm and this morning if I'd managed to get advice on here which would have seen me get the door open, as it was I charged him nothing.

He called another locksmith, who came round dug out the whole chunk of wood behind the handles on both sides, and proceeded to make 3 10mm drill holes in the lock - all through the casing and bolt! He charged £65 this morning at 11am and didn't even have a two and a half inch sashlock to relock the door. So he left the door swinging open with a great big hole in it. I've just been back and fitted a new Securefast lock (£35 fitted - I reckoned he'd been robbed once today so I'd do him a favour!), And told the guy I could have done that If I was a vandal but wouldn't have the neck to do so.

"Yes, I think the bloke was a bit of a cowboy" said the customer. I reckon I have a customer for life now!

[pizarro]

You could of given him the option of you drilling the lock. I know, I know, I can't believe I just said that.

But you could have knocked you price down to £40, drilled it and fitted the new one, with you getting more money than you did coming back to fit the lock, and the customer getting a better deal rather than getting ripped off by a cowboy.

[Sbecspeledrx]

Well If I'd drilled it he might well have not needed a new lock. But like the shark who came to open the door for him. I'm not very good a tdrilling locks!

[Sbecspeledrx]

Having got the old lock from the customer I see that removing the handles exposes the levers when the bolt throws to the right. So removing both handles and chiseling a little out of the door should have made it possible to open the thing with a key blank and a bit of wire should it not?

[pinky]

in most cases it should yes !

[Shrub]

can you post up some pics of the lock this cowboy drilled? also do you know the name of said cowboys firm?

[Sbecspeledrx]

I took photos on my mobile phone. But they cost me £1.50 each to send to my email address. Unless I can get hold of my dad's camera to photograph the lock (which will unfortunatley mean you miss the beautiful picture of what the door looked like after he'd finished!) then you're going to have to wait until I'm earning £1000 a week .

Also, I DO know the name of the cowboy firm. But I don't think it's right for me to name them here. He is a 'locksmith' who has been trading a lot longer than me. And I'd rather build my reputation than run others down.

[Shrub]

Hes not a locksmith as todays standards ask for at anyrate.

Can you not upload your pics on your phone to your pc?

[pizarro]

is he an independant locksmith, or someone working for a chain / franchise?

[quacking_duck]

Also, I DO know the name of the cowboy firm. But I don't think it's right for me to name them here. He is a 'locksmith' who has been trading a lot longer than me. And I'd rather build my reputation than run others down.

Let's face it mate, whether or not he started yesterday, or has been trading all his working life, or who he works for, he sounds like a complete idiot with no ethics and standards and he's costing you potential business if you're fair with your customers. I admire you for not wanting to do people down and continuing to build on your own reputation, but, as long as such a pratt like him is trading, the ignorant may continue to use him. You, however showed that you do have ethics by walking from it rather than drill, as you said yourself that you were not yet that good at drilling locks.

He clearly hasn't got the faintest idea of what he's doing if he needs to put 3 10mm holes in a Securefast non BS after removing the wood from the door in the first place; although I'd doubt he was drilling for profit, as the idiot does not even stock any basic 5 lever sashlocks. As Shrub said, he's not a locksmith as today's standards ask for. £65 during the day for such a joke of a 'service' is, in my opinion, frankly, far from acceptable.

It's people like him that are giving smiths a bad name, in general, and causing the general public to lack faith in the industry.
If he must drill and if he's a 'professional locksmith', charging 'professional' fees, why can he not, at the very very least, correctly ID the lock he's drilling and invest in a proper 2 or 3 mm template, then repair the door and repair and rekey or replace the lock to its original standard?

[Sbecspeledrx]

is he an independant locksmith, or someone working for a chain / franchise?

He's an independent locksmith. But only when he's not on shift at a large local employer.

Ok - folks - I'm feeling a little mischevious today, So I'll do what I can to get the piccies up for you. Quacking Duck, That's the thing I found most shocking - I tidied the door up and put it right with only very basic woodworking skills and a 2.5" sashlock. I can't believe he left it swinging open when the customer was off to work at 4pm!

[quacking_duck]

Sadly, I can believe it mate.

I hope you decide to post the photo's if you get them.


regards,

QD