spool pool?

[uselessid133]

ok well i heard some1 talking about trouble with a security pin on a lock well im tottaly confused and might be having the same problem, one of the "elders" said that to read on spool pool so i searched it and i couldnt really find anything im confused can some1 explain

[cheesehead]

try searching for "spool pins" - not "spool pool". It's a type of pick resistant pin that will give you the feel that the pin is set when it is not. If you do a little searching you should find all kinds of info on this site! I belive there are a few pics of them too. good luck!

[strangedream]

spool pool...lol

[illusion]

Ah... an eldar was arrived to enlighten you lol.

If you turn the plug with too much force/tension/torque then it won't affect normal top/driver pins, unless you use A LOT, but it affects spool pins very easily.

Okay, so let us assume you are using too much tension whilst lifting the spool pin... You will lift the pin until it gets near the sheerline, but the plug will turn early into the little groove cut into the middle of the pin.
It is easy to think you have set this pin correctly now, but when the other pins are set you'll have a problem. The plug will have turned 10 degrees or so, and will be stuck.

To beat spool pins you need to use a little ammount of tension, so that the pin is able to set at the sheerline, but that there is not enough to engage the grove in the middle of the pin - thus false-setting, and leaving you limited choices but to reset the pins and start again.

There is a way to rectify false set pins, but I posted these in another thread and am not overly keen in re-writing them - search security/spool pin/s in the posts that have been made by me... make sure you search by 'posts' rather than by 'topics'

Good luck, hope this helps.

[pinsetter]

On the subject of spool pins:

Has anyone else noticed the difference in sound of a false set spool pin and a real correct set? Maybe it is just a "thing" with my hearing, but I identify a false set with a lower pitched "thunk" followed by a brief springy feel, then by a pin that will no longer move. The "thunk" usually gives it away as a false set. Then when you get past the "thunk", the springy feel, and the pin not moving any more, you let up pressure VERY SLOWLY until the pin begins to move again, and I mean do this VERY slowly and let up pressure VERY CAREFULLY, you will hear a higher pitched "click" that is barely audible. This click will represent the true set more often than not.

Same thing with a serrated pin. I'll hear "thunk", "thunk", "thunk", "click", and usually associate the "click" with a correct set.

The thing with these pins, as pointed out, is the "feel" required to get the set without overextending the pins because your applying too much pressure and when the pin gives you inadvertantly push it too far up.
That is the single biggest hurdle to overcome in dealing with these types of pins.

Some locks can be real pains in the rear. My brinks R70 is a pain! It has both spools and serrated pins in it and it is very hard to pick because letting up pressure to set one spool may cause you to lose another one that you already had set. Indeed, these pins can present some good challenges!

Anyway, does anyone have any comments on the thunks and clicks I've mentioned? It seems to work for me, but may not be for everyone.

[devnill]

ive never noticed a difference in sound, but then again, my ears are pretty shot from loud music. I do however notice a different feel in spools when they set wrong. sometimes, its really faint, but I guess its a matter of practice

[pinsetter]

yeah, they do have a different feel to them. The serrated pins actually give me more trouble than the spools. The thing that gives me the most trouble is multiple spools because I usually lose some set pins when trying to pick them out of a false set.

I've honed my sense of hearing to the lock by my practice routine too. I practice picking sitting in total darkness so I have to rely on my hearing and feel. It really gets you in tune with what's going on in the lock. I started practicing like that just to improve my hearing for even the faintest sound, and to rely on the feedback of my tension wrench to know what's goin on in there.

When you take one of your senses away, the other senses will compensate when trained to do so.

It could be also that it's all in my head, but to me there are very minute differences in the sound of a spool pin suddenly being pushed to a false set, and the sound of a true set. I also noticed that a spool pin, when false setting will make a sound and be followed by a very small springy feel and then get tight again. That condition also depends on the fit of the plug in the cylinder. I have one lock that has a good tight fitting plug and good pin alignment and it is very hard to pick with no security pins in it. It is a padlock made by Best. In that lock almost all the pins bind at the same time equally. You have to stop pressing on the pick RIGHT when you hear the click, because it is really easy to continue moving them past the shear line. I almost think that Best padlock with tight tolerances was harder to pick than my Brinks R70 with security pins.

I'm curious now.

What do some of you others think regarding the sound of the pins setting and the feel of the different pins?

[Menesis]

I cannot think of one situation where the sounds when lockpicking add any information to what you are getting by feel. I do not find it harder to pick locks if it is too noisy to hear the clicks etc, but maybe that is just me.

It is true that picking in the dark forces some to think about what is going on rather than trying to see it. After you have had one good look at the lock and keyway there is nothing else to see that is of any use. Once you start picking you do not need to look again. In the dark about the hardest thing to do (and that is not hard) is working out which way up the keyway is, when picking padlocks for example.

Also you do not learn all these details by reading posts, but by doing it yourself.

[pinsetter]

Yes, in a noisy environment sound becomes irrelevant. I'm in agreement that the single biggest sense to work on is the feel. Feedback through the tension wrench is the biggie.

When all else fails on security pins I'll resort to the mathematical approach.
For example I start by identifying the security pins by taking a hook pick and pressing every single pin fully in and listening for the clicks and feeling for the hang-ups. Pins that click more than once I make note of and count the clicks and hangs on each pin. A single catch and click equals no security pins in that spot. A couple of catches and clicks and I usually associate that with a spool. Multiple catches and clicks I associate with serrated pins. (I also suppose that there could be a spool pin upper and serrated lower, but I have not yet encountered this in a lock.) Anyway, when you've identified the security pins and their possible types you can systematically narrow it down by process of elimination by trying the different possibilities on the security pins. For example, on a properly identified spool, the second catch will be the one to shoot for usually, and on serrated pins with say 4 catches I'll pick the pins and try to save that one for last, then start by tring to open it on the first catch, then the second if that fails, and so on. I've had good luck by doing this, but usually leave it for a last resort.

[Menesis]

Yes, usually you try quick things first and get more systematic for harder the lock appears to be, and what you describe is what I too would leave to last, but I like a lock that gets me to that stage, provided I can in the end open it.