Pill vs Bullet-pins

by **nip1024** » 25 Jul 2006 23:11

Tonight I replaced the deadbolt on my front door. The last one was working well, but I felt a new Brinks was better than a 25 year old Kwikset of which every previous owner of my condo has had a copy of the key. Anyway...

So, I played around with the Kwikset for a while and decided it needed cleaning. Lots and lots of cleaning. So, I take it apart and I find that it has two distinct types of lower pins. It has a pill shaped bottom pin and also two bullet shaped pins. The bullet-shaped pins were the ones giving me the most problems. What are these things? Is one better than the other? I replace the bullet-pins with pill-pins and could easily rake the lock. I'm thinking the Bullet-pins would be obsolete, considering that they made it easier to pick and were more time consuming to manufacture, but the new Brinks padlock (with a Kwikset cylinder) came with the pill-shaped variety. WTF?

I searched for 'bullet' and 'pill' but couldn't find an answer. Are there special names for these types of pins? Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

nip

by **Deathadder** » 25 Jul 2006 23:26

they could possibly be mushroom pins, do a search on google images and see if thats what they are

by **Raccoon** » 25 Jul 2006 23:54

Please take a picture of these and share them with us.

You say "lower pins" and you're in the united states, so I'm going to assume you really mean the bottom pins (or key pins). In a Kwikset, these pins are usually flat, where other better quality locks will have sharply pointed pins. My Kwikset pinning kit has bottom pins that can be put in - in either direction, as both sides have the same beveled end. Higher quality locks won't have bevels as the locks have tighter tolerances.

All the bottom pins in your lock should have been the same style, unless you found some master pinning wafers. I suppose these tiny flat round wafers might look like tablets or pills.

by **nip1024** » 26 Jul 2006 1:22

Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera right now (it's in Wyoming). I am speaking of the Key pins. The 'bullet' shapes have a flat end and a tapered end. The 'pill' shaped pins have tapers on both ends. |_) vs. (_). The bullet pins were quite a bit more difficult to pick. None of the pins are security pins. It just seems strange that a pin that requires more tooling to produce and is easier to pick would be this common.

nip

by **Raccoon** » 26 Jul 2006 1:25

The idea is the pin won't snag as easily on cheap locks with loose tolerences and worn out keys. It's security enough to keep honest people honest, and customers from calling the complaints department because their key sticks.

by **Krypos** » 26 Jul 2006 4:49

ive got pics. i had a lock just like that with bullet pins. they are pointy, like a bullet as apposed to any newer lock that has a bevel. (bevel right?)

locating pics on hard drive.........

well, theyre not on the drive, will photo them now.

i do believe thats what you're talking about. and i too have observed that in older, dirtier locks, they seem to make picking it VERY difficult.

by **zeke79** » 26 Jul 2006 8:27

The bullet shaped pins are from a "universal" style pinning kit. They will work in many styles of locks with many different spacings of cuts on the keys. The "pill" shaped pins are an OEM kwikset pin that will only work on kwikset and kwikset spec locks due to the bevel of the pin. You may find that the length of a certain OEM kwikset pin may be the same as a universal pin for a different type of lock but due to the beveling present on the OEM kwikset pin, it will not seat fully on the cuts of the non kwikset key spacing resulting in a high pin.

Hope that makes some sense.

by **raimundo** » 26 Jul 2006 8:34

what does everyone think of those pins with the bevel on both ends, doesnt it effectively make the shear line wider, for picking, and would picking with heavy tension be the sure thing?

by **zeke79** » 26 Jul 2006 9:03

Yes it does just as you say Ray. The OEM kwikset pins are just as you described too. Sure does make pinning a no brainer though :lol:

.

by **pinsetter** » 26 Jul 2006 9:52

raimundo wrote:what does everyone think of those pins with the bevel on both ends, doesnt it effectively make the shear line wider, for picking, and would picking with heavy tension be the sure thing?

I think it does make the shear line more forgiving, but I don't find that heavier than normal tension helps much. I just think you don't have to be quite so precise on your lift.

by **Raccoon** » 26 Jul 2006 15:12

Again, the bevel at the shear line isn't intended to make picking easier, but to forgive the crappy tooling of the lock.

I have a Kwikset Branded universal pinning kit which is said to be compliant with Kwikset, Schlage, Weiser, Weslock, and Master Lock. All of the pins are beveled in both ends, so it doesn't matter which end you put in first. I could be wrong, but I always thought that Schlage locks required pointed pins. Admittedly, I haven't repinned a Schlage with this kit, yet.

I have noticed on a few jobs that using the specified pins for the given biting of the key (Kwikset) did not work. The pins sat too low and required 1 pin size higher, which did work. Again, these pins are meant for the crappiest of locks which are already no challenge to pick. Customer gets what they paid for.

by **Krypos** » 26 Jul 2006 16:15

as for heavier tension- uhhh no, not really. i have an old gummy kwikset that had those sharper pins, that was hard, due to the grimeyness of the lock, and even after cleaning it, its uh, well crap. but i have another lock that has the beveled pins, i dont know about a wider (???) shearline, but you definately do not need more tension, i can barely rest my finger on the tension wrench and pop it (usually faster than if i actaully apply tension)

by **zeke79** » 26 Jul 2006 16:23

Ray and I were not stating that it was easier nor required more tension to pick the lock with that style of pin. We were simply stating that the style of pin makes it more tolerable to tension errors such as heavy or extrememly heavy tension.

This is merely our opinion. It is also one of the reasons why I think kwiksets are the #1 starter lock you can purchase.

by **Deathadder** » 26 Jul 2006 18:35

i have a padlock, its kinda old and the shackle is a lil rusted, when i try to pick it, i can hardly feel the pins hit the shear line at all, is this because of the beveled pins? and should i try using more tension? Because it is agrivating to pick it

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