Need help picking this one.

[lockme12]

Hi
first of all I should be grateful and respect to all the members here for the immense knowledge and guidance.

I recently got my first pickset and started off with a bunch of padlocks, things were going great with the rake pick. till i hit this one. I got this from walmart - the cheapest one around - its called Mountain security (made by hampton people - these guys have brinks etc. on thier homepage, so i am guessing this is one of their products ) [ see pic below ]

I thinking I am missing something (read MIT guide a couple of times ) I was not able to get a single pin "set". I tried different picks like the diamond (raking didnt work) and with the ball pick I think I felt one or two pins being set. The springs keep pushing down and I was never able to tension-wrench it even a millimeter.

Please help me if any of you guys have expereince with this lock. Any tips of any kind will help want to pick this one at any cost

TIA.

[pH]

You will be able to tell if you set a pin(s) by when you release the tension, you will hear the clicks as the top pins fall back down.

It's hard for me to give specific advise so far, but if you're having trouble just setting one pin, my first guess would be that you're using too much tension. Try just barely more tension than the weight of your finger.

With no tension, can you push the pins up with your pick at all? Try feeling around with no tension and pushing each pin up individually. Then add the slightest tension and do the same thing. You should get some kind of feedback.

You can also look at the key as a reference to determine how high to raise each pin.

After you've done that on each pin for a minute or two release the tension and hear if it clicks from the top pins falling down. After some practice you may even be able to tell how many pins you set just by this sound.

[Shrub]

Lay off the rakeing and try going for single pin picking, if you dont have one get or make a hook pick,

Click on the picture in my signiture and look for the link to the beginers lockpicking exorcise by Digital Blue and have a read of that,

It may be that you need to follow that advice on a differant lock and then come back to this one once youve master it a bit,

[ericm115]

yuck. I wish so many people wouldn't start raking before being able to open a Kwikset 5pin single-pin-picking. It just seems degrading to the art.

I've never even held a rake and I've been steadily picking for two months. I've never felt like I was proficient enough at SPP to leave it and try raking. I'm picking Sargents and Corbins now and there's never been any need for raking... course, I'm not a lockie on a lockout call. I suppose I would then...

but lockies aside, raking seems degrading when lockpicking is this awesome puzzle decoding hobby. *raking takes equal parts of skill and luck* I know, I've read it. Honestly, I believe it... but SPP takes equal parts of skill and nothing else if you do it correctly. </well-meaning-rant>

Not trying to start anything here... I've just read several raking-by-noobs (I'm a noob too) posts in a row tonight and I needed to release.

em

[Bud Wiser]

Hi
first of all I should be grateful and respect to all the members here for the immense knowledge and guidance.

I recently got my first pickset and started off with a bunch of padlocks, things were going great with the rake pick. till i hit this one. I got this from walmart - the cheapest one around - its called Mountain security (made by hampton people - these guys have brinks etc. on thier homepage, so i am guessing this is one of their products ) [ see pic below ]

I thinking I am missing something (read MIT guide a couple of times ) I was not able to get a single pin "set". I tried different picks like the diamond (raking didnt work) and with the ball pick I think I felt one or two pins being set. The springs keep pushing down and I was never able to tension-wrench it even a millimeter.

Please help me if any of you guys have expereince with this lock. Any tips of any kind will help want to pick this one at any cost

TIA.

I'm familiar with Mountain, and Faultless. Try very light tension, and don't push the pins up so hard. You may not think your using enough tension but try it that way a few times. These locks pick pretty easy with lighter tension and a softer touch. Make sure your tension wrench is not binding too.

I usually use a small hook for SPP but use many different tension wrenches. I find the tension wrench is the next important thing after using the right amount of tension. Learning to keep the same amount of tension is another key.

Occasionally if you feel you are close to getting most of the pins set, you might want to try a S rake or my favorite, the Jag rake (looks like a W). Really I only use four picks, those I just named and also the small half diamond.

The diamond comes in handy for applying various picking techniques at once. Pin pushing, pin tapping, and raking.

You really should take the advice others gave by learning how to SPP first! So much rides on learning the feel of tension and pins.

Good Luck!

[ericm115]

Yea, like BudWiser implied, you may be oversetting the pins. Feel around slowly with your pick (while the plug is under torque) and find the pin that feels like it doesn't want to be pressed up the most. Lower the torque you are putting on the plug until you can press it up without bending your pick.

Now, press that pin up very slowly. It will probably be easiest if you use the bottom of the keyway (if possible) as a pivot point for your pick. Place the bottom of the pick on the bottom of the keyway and press the handle down to lift the hook or diamond up (like a lever).

Pressing the pin up slowly, take note when the pin all the sudden feels different. Sometimes the pin will just stop and not want to be pushed up anymore. Sometimes it will suddenly stop giving much resistance, sometimes, the plug will actually turn a tiny bit (Nothing dramatic like a millimeter though.. you may not see the plug visibly spin at all... you may just feel it a tiny bit on some pins). When something changes with the way the pin feels, it will probably be set and you need to stop pushing it immediately. Then go and find the next hardest pin to press up.


Goodluck. The most common mistake it oversetting pins I think, so press slowly and stop once you feel any change.


em

[raimundo]

think about tension, you apply tension, and the pins stop you because they are in a bind between two immobile parts, at this time, you can apply more tension and what will that get you, nothing, except to bind the most bound pin even harder, well, serrated pins just love that don't they, So, light tension is where all the action is and all the feel.
european pickers with their upside down locks, love to put a finger at the interface between the plug and the cylinder, because this gives a very positive feedback for tiny 'sets' that would not be apparent to the eye or would not be delivered as convincingly.
This weekend, I made a few tensor finger rings, this is a short tensor blade right off a ring, with no handle shaft at all, thus it gives less leverage, and light tension, the concept was to find a way to use that finger that touches the cylinder and plug as the tension also, the less efficient lever will give greater feedback, a more efficient lever just gives greater pin binding. the concept is half baked right now, trying to keep the ring out of the way of the pick and keyway etc, but thats only a matter of working on it, I'm putting this out there for those who think as I do that short tensors, and the touch-feedback finger could be combined, and if it were coupled with a pick that is used in the same hand and ergonomically fitted to the person, fingersize, length of finger etc, you would have one hand picking. Of course, I have used one hand picking for years whenever it came up as necessary, ergonomic fingerloop handles to prevent dropping and a small loop on the end of a short tensor which attaches to the little finger by rubber band gets the job done, if the locks not gunked

[ericm115]

Ray,

You are always thinking and creating. Someone else around here is always trying new tensioner designs too (pinsetter I think?). If y'all ever feel like selling any of your effective designs, I'm here for it.


Eric

[Bud Wiser]

I am definitely a big believer in the role tension wrenches in picking and have been designing various types of custom tension wrenches for myself. I know when I was first learning how to pick I would make two big mistakes,
1. too much tension
2. pushing pins to hard
this leads to frustration!

Finding the correct amount of tension has to be the most important thing in picking, next a soft touch in puching pins.

I've read various accounts on *how* much tension should be applied. I've read 1 pound of pressure, and I've read 1 ounce of pressure. Obviously 1 ounce is closer to the truth, but I've read one pound from a CD for picking! I've also read the amount of pressure one uses on a tension wrench is about the same as that applied to a keyboard. But this is flawed! Some pound away on the keyboards!

I am working on a method and design that would permit the user to use various *measurable* amounts of tension. This would also apply the same steady amount of tension and permit one hand picking. AT the very least I'm hoping this can be used at the very least as a learning tool. As soon as I have a workable consistent design made I will post it!

Mean while just remember, tension is every thing, next a soft touch on pin pushing. Then the pick

[linty]

pH
PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 9:12 am Post subject:
You will be able to tell if you set a pin(s) by when you release the tension, you will hear the clicks as the top pins fall back down.

this isn't altogether true, you don't want to confuse setting with oversetting, both will yield this result.