walk away or drill

[Schuyler]

I don't think anyone IS fighting, though. Reading this? I'm really impressed with the respectful manner in which everyone is talking to each other, despite having distinctly different feelings on the issue.

[HeadHunterCEO]

Of course you don't want to have to drill but guess what,
gonna happen anyway
If it hasen't happened to you out there it will eventually
got to get over it and at the same time you have to get better at entry

this place is the equivelant of the Library of Congress when it comes to picking

great place to start

[lost profit]

its funny that that a lot of the guys who run this forum mention the customer as the very nice people that should,nt be messed around .
two weeks ago i wake up to the sound of my mobile ringing and it did,nt stop a young lady was locked out her flat , i grabbed my tools and went over on the way she rang me again to make sure i was still coming .when i got there she was with here drunken boyfriend he kept trying to slobber over me it took me about 10 minute to pick the lock this guy must have rolled and smoked three joints in this time i raked the lock to keep the noise down as the pick gun sounded like a numatic drill the girl kept offering to hold the tension tool as i had dropped it twice. i picked the lock changed the cylinder and charged them £95 the girl gave me a cheque the guy shook my hand and i was o so glad to be going home . the check bounced twice and came back to me with a black line through it in my haste i had forgot to ask for a check gaurantee card number . lol

[CJM]

Bonez, the MLA say drill everything? really because some may do but also some of the finest locksmiths in the world are members. You know lots about the trade dont you

[bobc]

Bonez, the MLA say drill everything? really because some may do but also some of the finest locksmiths in the world are members. You know lots about the trade dont you

Bonez, the MLA say drill everything? really because some may do but also some of the finest locksmiths in the world are members. You know lots about the trade dont you

With respect to everyone who use this forum be you in the trade/hobbist or whatever I think maybe we run the chance of turning this debate into a them/us situation!
I think it would be fair to say that in any organistion,trade, people in general etc there are a few bad apples in the basket so to speak, there is good and bad in all walks of life and although I accept this should't be the case the fact is that in the real world it happens and there isn't much that anyone seems prepared to do about it.
I believe that if someone wants to rip the little old lady off down the street then as much as I hate them for doing so it is purely down to the individual who they employ to do a job of work. Only they can stop the rip off men/women there are ways of defeating them eg ring round for quotes, ask neigbours/friends if they can recommend someone etc.
Having fancy letters attached to a business doesn't make it a good business, but on the whole I accept that most likely are!
When someone rings me I always give them a price for a particular job on the the understanding that it is as they have explained to me if I feel they are unhappy I advice them to ring round afterall its what I would do!
But then I hear you say its not just about price but the quality of workmanship and again I agree I never leave until I am satisfied that they are happy about the service that I have provided and also assure them that I am only a phone call away if there are any concerns.
Ok at midnight in an emergency people won't have as much choice but can always agree a price on the phone beforehand.
Sorry if drifted away from the point a bit there, the general point I was making that whatever trade/occupation you find yourself in you will have people who are willing to help/advice/give good service/be respectful and honest/charge reasonable rates and others who couldn't care less about anyone/anything but themselves

bobc

[pinky]

I agree 100% about good and bad in all walks of life, even the locksmith industry.

The MLA are not as closed shop as people make out, anyone willing to submit a police check can join as a student, they can then get access to the MLA website and forum etc,and if they take the exams , they can progress in the association, so its a long way from a closed shop, anyone can join.

ALOA welcome overseas members, and you can join this too, and with worldwide meetings, and probably the best known association in the world, again for overseas members , not a closed shop at all.

The MLA or any association try to promote standards etc in industry, and represent their members needs in industry.

I agree also, everyone drills the occasional lock for 1 reason or another, and how you deal with this is down to your own trading ethics.

though as stated and explained i still disagree that its ok for a new guy to learn on the job at the customers expense, especially if advertising themself as a locksmith and charging locksmith rates, but im happy with them learning on the job at their own expense, ie , free lock if drilled etc.

MLA etc have come in for alot of stick over years, but as an association they are still well worth belonging too, do one or more of their classes to see the value in them.

finaly, as to refering to customers as nice, yes we get the not so nice, but the customer nice or not , still deserves the service they pay for at a fair price, no one deserves to be ripped off, nice or not.

rogue traders has highlighted the locksmith industry as an industry of rogues who overcharge and are not to be trusted, all the time the industry is overcrowded with new guys undertrained and many ( not all) overcharging for a shoddy service, then we will not lose this stigma, no matter how its dressed up.

[bobc]

Yes I agree with you that belonging to some form of organisation has got to be of some comfort to many people out there and certainly if within that organisation there are good support mechanisms in place to help developed the career of the individual member.
Having no inside knowledge of MLA, I would be unable to comment on how they run But I can see from posts on here that you are a well respected member whom people trust and as so very much welcome your opinions.
Many people don't want to join organisations for many reasons , (they see them as a waste of money, Hate the politics of them, Perhaps been let down by them in the past, etc.) This is just a general view of organisations in any industry as a whole so I am not trying to knock those within locksmithing
Anything thats promotes good practices is for the better and we should all embrace that, But by the same token individuals should be free to choose if they want to belong or not !
As long as that individual is acting in a professional manner and displaying good ethics then I don't have a problem with that.
I do agree somewhat with you on the new guy learning on the door that it shouldn't be at the expense of the customer and speaking for myself as someone who is new I would't hesitate to offer damage payment if I believed for one second that I was solely responsible for doing so.
However it is much up to the individual what level of work they take on and what others skills they may process which they can bring into the business to help them succeed.

There are some nice and not so nice customers out there and each situation is different, but yes to act any other way rather than in a professional manner would be wrong.

However I don't believe for one minute that people should put up with any abuse from customers providing they as professionals are acting in such a maner as not to provoke them, then I would advocate that if anyone found themselves in that situation the best course of action would be to leave.

Lost Profit I think you just have to put that one down to experience and take away the knowledge that perhaps in some situations you will be on a loser no matter what you do. Ask for money up front (not ethical I know but you have to weight up the pros and cons )or take some payment however little is better than a rubber cheque even if it just covers the price of fuel
Again its all down to the indivdual and how they want to conduct themselves.


bobc

[lost profit]

cheers bobc. i suppose sometimes the customer can de trickier than the lock ,ime glad it dosent happen very often