I need a good outdoor lock w/ restricted keyway

[devildog]

I think there's a thread around here where I express my feelings on electronic locking devices in general. I would be especially nervous about having one out in the middle of nowhere like that where it's going to get wet, dirty, and generally mistreated.

[Varjeal]

Hmmm...how about a nice key retaining padlock with a Scorpion CX-5 cylinder.

Keys are relatively inexpensive compared to most, and the locks and cylinders are very durable.

[I Pik U]

Hmmm...how about a nice key retaining padlock with a Scorpion CX-5 cylinder.

Another point is that you might want something other than a padlock, as a padlock can be left open....

Abloy padlocks have always been key retaining. Although the cost of 1000+ keys sure adds up. Also, Whats to stop someone from keeping a key after they've given up membership or whatever to what your locking up. Some people will ask for a deposit on the key, still no guarantee they will return the key though.

As others have said, there's nothing better for outdoor use than the Classic keyed Abloy. You can also get a dust cover for them now, not that it's really needed for the Classic keyway, but on the Protec or other keys, it may be a good idea.

[arris]

id say a 340/350 on blue excel,

you could always get it registered so only you can get keys cut for the specific padlock, so they have to be distributed by you,

we do alot of this at my place altho in uk,

so you need to show id and proof its your padlock before we will copy the keys..

and yes dust covers are out, altho they dont allow water to drain, so it gonna sit inside, so you win some you loose some

rick

[David_Parker]

1300 Keys? Dude, theres really no point in throwing that kind of cash towards this. Two words: Access Control.

Situations like these are the whole reason for access control. What if somebody abuses their privledges and you need to take away their key, and they don't? They still have access. Are you going to hire a locksmith to re-key it? Finding one qualified to do Abloy isn't easy. Abloy rarely used on business for this very reason. Its why you see Medeco or Mul-T-Lock or Schlage Primus. And when you do find one, are you going to go down your contact list of 1,299 customers and say "Hey, I need another $10.00 from you to cover the cost of replacing these new high-security keys." They're going to tell you one thing "F*** This."

Back to Access Control. You can at least get a IEI Prox Pad Plus which lists for about $385. Plus, it has audit capability for 2000 users. (That means you can see who went in and out!) Throw a weatherproof Securitron MagnaLock and you're good to go. Buy some 18-6 wire and some 18-2 for the power, with some waterproof flex conduit and you've got a fully intergrated access control system. If somebody screws up or abuses the range, just kick them out, and take out their code. That way, there isn't any reason to update everyone on a new code, because everyone has their own, unique code.

By the way, if you're looking for a cost effective way to mechanically upgrade your facilities, I would recommend Schlage Primus. Simply because Schlage allows you to take existing schlage products, such as the BC160 Deadbolt, and exchange the cylinder, automatically going to high security. Does the deadbolt hold up to UL standards? No. Is it a good dead bolt? You bet your ass.

-Dave.

[arris]

ye this guy seems right will be cheaper,

altho i can re key abloy lol,

but keys are about £5 a pop in the uk wich is alot of cash,

[I Pik U]

£5 a pop in the uk

$15 here in Canada.

[greyman]

Abloy Classic, hands down, no doubt.
[...]
Oh! And another excellent choice would be an Ingersoll 'Impregnable' 700 Series, which is a 10-lever lock that is very well known to be excellent for outside use such as what you want, it's very corrosion-resistant and reliable, ...

Devildog, I agree with your vote for Abloy. If the fellow wants a restricted keyway, I'm sure Abloy can oblige (do they still make the Profile series?). Abloy is so simple that there's basically nothing that can go bung in an outdoors environment.

Ingersoll on the other hand - very secure, and widely used in the UK, but the core is zinc alloy and therefore tends to deteriorate in extreme weather (hot/cold). Not sure if I'd call that one really durable. Having said that, I have one on my shed

[DBS]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for a good outdoor lock to be on the vehicle gate to private a shooting range. I'm a thinking of something along the lines of an ABLOY 350/50 with EXEC level 4 keyway.

Here's the expensive part. I need 1,300 keys to cover all the members, and I do not want them to be able to make copies at the local hardware store.


What in your opinion is a good lock, for outdoor gate use, something made of brass or chromed brass, good for rain and snow, with restricted keyways.



So far I can only think of Medeco and ABLOY. Any other padlock makers out there with restricted keys? Mul-t-lock maybe? oh, and something with a keyway dust cover.

Thanks for your help,

Squelchtone

1300 keys in any restricted keyway is a substantial amount of money. Thousands of dollars. Also any time you have that many keys out they are going to get lost. People are going to quit the club and refuse to return the key etc. How many times are you prepared to have that happen before you break down and rekey at the cost of several thousand more $? I guess if you charge each member for their key you can offset the cost but there is still a huge potential hassle factor. Have you considered a good combo padlock like an S&G or similar? You could find a biometric solution including a custom instalation on your gate cheaper than you could get just the keys. Hell you could do a biometric solution AND a custom gate to mount it on for less.

[zeke79]

Cost is a big issue. Even going with Primus keys @ $4 each you are looking at $5200 in keys for 1300 of them.

[DBS]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for a good outdoor lock to be on the vehicle gate to private a shooting range. I'm a thinking of something along the lines of an ABLOY 350/50 with EXEC level 4 keyway.

Here's the expensive part. I need 1,300 keys to cover all the members, and I do not want them to be able to make copies at the local hardware store.


What in your opinion is a good lock, for outdoor gate use, something made of brass or chromed brass, good for rain and snow, with restricted keyways.



So far I can only think of Medeco and ABLOY. Any other padlock makers out there with restricted keys? Mul-t-lock maybe? oh, and something with a keyway dust cover.

Thanks for your help,

Squelchtone

There's one other pitfall here too if you go with a truely restricted mechanical key system. Typically restricted keyway will cost you $10-$20 per cut key but lets say you get a really good deal because you need so many say $3 per cut key (fantastic price) now you have $3900 invested in keys with Joe's Lock shop or whoever. Because your keyway is restricted Joe's is probably the only place you can get your keys. Now there is nothing but Joe's good nature to prevent him from raising your per key cost to whatever he wants on all future keys (unless you have a contract). You have no choice but to pay it or scrap your whole system or in a pinch get another lock on another system and daisy chain padlocks if that will work with the way your gate is setup. Same problem if Joe's lock shop goes out of business and leaves your key system up in the air etc. IMHO Electronic access control or mechanical combo lock is the way to go here. Keys will cause way too many headaches.

[Squelchtone]

good suggestions guys, but I have 2 words: gate is in the middle of the woods on a dirt road with no power line anywhere near it. one, two, no wait, that was more than two words.

I'd rather not get into prices, but you guys are at least $2 higher on your 'low' price guesses than what I got for a price, and unless Abloy closes its Dallas factory, I can buy all the keys I want because I'm buying them factory direct, not from a local lockie who, you are correct, could raise the price anytime he'd like.

I was just consulting on this job, and its out of my hands now, I think they're going with it, and it's within a couple grand.

ps. I've worked with HID prox card readers for 10 years, and yeah I know that would be a better route, but no electricity limits what we can do at the location.

thank you for all the help and replies! good night!

Squelchtone

[devildog]

I thought these sort of things could run off of batteries for, like, several years before needing a battery replacement and they were set up with a fail-safe so that instead of being unsecured if the battery failed it would lock down as a failure mode in case the power goes out.

[David_Parker]

DevilDog: No, a Magnetic Lock cannot run off of batteries due to the fact that it needs constant power. And you've got your fail-secure/fail-safe backwards. Fail-Safe is when power is cut off, the lock unlocks allowing access. Fail-Secure is the opposite; when power is cut off, the lock stays locked. Fail-Safe devices are best used when the ability to exit is an issue, such as stairwells or doors to outside areas. Fail-Secure devices are used on areas that contain sensitive materials or data, such as server closets or the like. Every Magnetic Lock is Fail-Safe. But electrified mortise locks or knob sets can be converted (depending on the brand and model, its up to the manufacturer, just like door-handing). Even electric strikes can sometimes be switched between fail-safe or fail-secure. Plus, most systems run off of 12v or 24v power, so unless you can find a battery that does that for a couple years, you're stuck with a hot-hard line.

Which brings me back to access control: I still view this as you're only option. Call up an access control company and ask them to due a survey, most of the time, they'll do one for free just to get your business.


-Dave.

[devildog]

Ok I see, I didn't realize it was magnetic. Well, in that case why couldn't he do an electronic access control setup where the lock isn't magnetic, i.e. just basically an electronic deadbolt, that will fail-secure? You'd have your electronic access control with a card or individual codes or what have you that would take care of the aforementioned problems, it's battery powered, and will fail-secure so you don't need to worry about the batteries running down and leaving the facility unsecured.