Need help with a gummed up, old front door lock

[honesthans]

Hi,

My parents have been living in their current house now for 12 or 13 years and have never had a key to their front door. I'd hoped to pick it and re-key it, but when I pushed the first cylinder up, which was tough to do, it just stayed stuck there.

I was just wondering if you could get a lock like this working again? The shell and cylinder look very clean with only a little corrosion around the cam at the back. The pins themselves also look good, though the keyway has a lot of dirt and dust in it. Would soaking it in some sort of solution help, or is it possible that the springs have simply failed?

The lock is an Elgin 6 pin (I think) mortise cylinder. It doesn't have a latch in the shell, above the springs, like on the other locks that I've worked on but has 6 round indentations on the shell below the pins in the cylinder. Do these holes have any functional purpose? The house is more than 100 years old, so I have no idea how old the lock is. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Here's a picture:

[mercurial]

Since the lock seems too stiff to pick open at present, you could try shimming it from the rear of the cylinder, as you have the cylinder out of the door.

If the lock is also too stiff to shim, I would reccommend flushing it out well with WD-40. Yes, WD-40 can be bad for locks as stated elsewhere on the forum, but seeing you are going to strip the lock down, it will not be an issue here. Be sure to lubricate the lock properly when it is reassembled.

Seeing you wish to rekey this lock, I assume you have a key blank for it. If this is the case, you can insert and withdraw the keyblank, wiping off dirt+WD-40 each time. This should certainly free up the lock enough to pick it or shim it. If you don't have a keyblank yet, you can use picks or a probe to achieve the same thing.

Once you have the lock disassembled, the parts can be soaked in shellite or mineral spirits to clean them.

Upon reassembly of the lock, it should be lubricated with Tri-flow, or a good silicon lubricant.

The holes you refer to at the bottom of the cylinder are there from when the lock was machined at the factory, the holes in the bible were drilled from there.

I have seen cylinders from padlocks where these holes are left open, and this allows you to change key-pins without disassembling the cylinder.

With the lock you have, these holes are likely to have been sealed, because the key pins would fall into them when the plug is rotated through 180 degrees.

Hope that helps,

...Mark

[Eyes_Only]

Brake cleaner will work well too without leaving any residue. You could use the WD-40 first and then blast it with the brake cleaner to completely clean it out and then squirt a bit of graphite if you plan to use it again.

[mercurial]

Brake cleaner will work well too without leaving any residue. You could use the WD-40 first and then blast it with the brake cleaner to completely clean it out and then squirt a bit of graphite if you plan to use it again.

Indeed, brake cleaner will work well. The problem with WD-40, is not so much that it leaves a residue (it doesn't), the problem is that it acts as a degreaser. Brake cleaner also acts as a degreaser, and thus has the same drawback.

Proper lubrication of the lock *after* freeing it up to allow disassembly & rekeying is what matters if the lock is to stay reliable.

Graphite is often used as an effective lock lubricant, however be aware that spray-lubricants mixed with graphite can create a nasty 'mud'. Tri-flow (teflon based), or silicone based lubricants are certainly an effective choice, as mentioned above.

...Mark

[Krypos]

BTW: then springs in this lock are probably shot. i mean, thats not to say that they wont still work, but i have disassembled a few oldies myself, and they are dirty. very dirty actually. so you may want to think about new springs, but while at it, why not just buy a whole new lock. nearly guaranteed that a $12 deadbolt from the local hardware store is just as good and 100% more reliable.

but thats just my thoughts on it.

oh yeah, and personally, i have found that using qtips to clean the lock, etc is helpful. thats just me again, and i dont have any special tools i know of for cleaning locks, but ive found qtips to be good.

gl.

[HeadHunterCEO]

you should pull the mortise out of the door and focus your cleaning efforts there.

[whiteknight38]

Krypos is right thinking that the springs may be shot. Also, the brass keyway warding may be worn down as well, and a new key may wobble so much, that the lock may never work smoothly after repinning.
And the case lock itself, probably needs cleaning, or it may be completely pooched also.
Have a look at a fairly typical (North American) mortise case lock, opened up, and you'll see the number of parts that can wear down, or go wrong.
http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w310 ... 007452.jpg
Is that the kind of lock you have in your door?
Typically, they have a grip set style of handle on theoutside, and aknob inside.
Unfortunatley, when these babies go wrong, there is what I call, "a cascade effect" of problems. Like an old car, by the time the transmission goes, something else is going too.
The parts clean up nicely with a wire brush on a grinder in about an hour or so. Or you can use brake cleaner, and a rag. 0The wire brush doesn't take off too much metal, and leaves a nice burnished look. These locks, in working condition, are sought after as collectibles and for retrofits.
(You might want to take a digital photograph pre disassembly though, in case you need help puzzling it back into shape.)

Unfortunately, easily obtainable, a modern hardware-store cylinder may not necessarily retrofit into your door. Here are some of the lengths I've come accross on these old locks: 1” 1 1/8 ” 1 ¼” 1 3/8” 1 1/2” 1 7/16” 1 3/4” (Once in a blue moon I'll find one with a thread pattern that doesn't match the case lock.)
Only the first two lengths are readilly available in hardware stores. The other lengths can be found, (usually special order, or refurbed locks from restoration joints) but cost dearly.
Hopefully, though, maybe all your cylinder needs after all is cleaning and repinning.
A locksmith can do that for you, (15 - 20 bucks?) or you can beg or buy a piece of shim, and a handfull of random pins and springs off the guy. Every locksmith has probably upwards of a half-pound or so of scrapped pins rattling around in the drawer of his pin kit, and ought to give them up without much thinking about it.
Tell him you are interested in restoring old locks as a hobby, which is technically true, afterall.
Repinning a lock using a bunch of random pins is time consuming, but perfectly feasible. Or, just buy a mini pin kit off ebay for about 5o bucks or so.
Depends on how you like to spend your money, and your time.
Best of luck.

By the way, the six capped holes on the bottom of your lock were part of the manufacture of the lock. The cylinder chambers lock were drilled from the bottom, instead of the top.

[thekeymaker]

i beleive the lock is still good. its most likely a antique. also do you have a blank for this lock. and are you able to get the back screws un done.

[honesthans]

Actually, I couldn't find the proper blank for this lock. Is there still even an Elgin Lock Co. and do any of the locksmiths here ever see locks from that manufacturer? Anyone willing to take a guess at how old this lock is? At the 4th place that I went to, I finally found a blank that fit the keyway, but it was for a 5 pin lock, which I settled for.

I got the pins to move with WD-40 and shimmed it open. The inside was nasty: badly worn pins and a layer of corrosion, dirt and grit covering everything. The sixth pin socket was empty. I soaked in denatured alchol to get rid of the dirt and grit, then filed the key and put it all back together. It works okay. I need to buy some graphite or silicone lube. (Could anyone recommend a corrosion remover for brass?) My parents were impressed, though. I made them lock me out at the front door then gave them a little surprise by unlocking it with a key for the first time in who knows how many years.

I haven't been able to get the mortise case out of the door, but the latchplate looks exactly like that photo. One thing that concerns me is that the cylinder can be screwed out from the face plate just by putting a screwdriver into the keyway and twisting it counterclockwise. I'm thinking that that can't possibly be the correct way in which this lock was intended to be installed. Anyone have an idea about how the lock is supposed to be secured? Is there a missing nut that is supposed to screw on to the back of the cylinder? I've been putting a lot of work into picking and impressioning, and I have to admit that I'm really weak when it comes to actually installing locks, doors, hinges, etc.

Thanks for all the help, everyone.

[whiteknight38]

To get the case out of the door, all the exterior hardware has to be removed first: the lock cylinder, handles, and thumbturn. Then remove the top and bottom screw on the door edge plate.
The interior handle may be baffling at first, depending on which style is used. A common one is a split-spindle, with two rectangular strips which together make a square spindle, threaded to become a screw, for the inside knob. Remove the top half first, and the bottom piece will wiggle out. It has a kind of L-shape, which is a cam actuator.
Some of these locks have a plate over the face plate which obviously has to be removed first. The cylinder is secured by a set screw coming in at right angles to the middle of the lock, and bites into the groove common to all mortise cylinders, that runs down the left and right side of the cylinder body. Some locks have one control screw, that moves a funny looking U-shaped gizmo, that sets both the cylinder and the inside thumbturn plate. The first lock, (the closed one) has that style of mechanism. The second, open lock has two separate set screws, side by side. You can't see them, but they are in the same spot, at right angles to the center of the cylinder body.
If they are missing, you can replace them with an old deadbolt screw, 8/32 thread should do it. Cut it to length, as required.
You can remove corrosion with brass cleaner, like brasso, a four ounce can will cost you about 5 bucks.
I save time by buffing everything with a wire brush on a grinder. See the post on cleaning brass that contributed to. You don't have to go to the effort of dismantling and totally cleaning the case, however, (unless you feel like it) if the lock is working ok.
What else?
Don't sweat the empty sixth chamber. Many locks are chambered for six pins, but only loaded for five, as a cost saving measure.
The lock is probably as old as the house.

[mercurial]

Don't sweat the empty sixth chamber. Many locks are chambered for six pins, but only loaded for five, as a cost saving measure.
The lock is probably as old as the house.

In his case, it turned out he could only manage to find a 5-pin blank to fit the lock - so if the 6th chamber was populated, the contents would've had to been remoeved anyway.

As far as getting the case out of the door etc, whiteknight38's advice is right on the money - if you have any difficulties, just post about it - a picture can often help a lot - if it is possible for you to provide one.

As far as cleaning brass, there has been discussion on this recently, specifically regarding cleaning brass levers from UK mortice locks - there are many ideas there - and it applies to cleaning brass parts in general.

Whatever cleaning method you use, if it is parts inside the lock/latch mechanism you are cleaning, be sure to lubricate them again afterwards. For the insides of the case/latch, grease is good.

...Mark

[honesthans]

Great, thanks for answering all of that, M and WK. It's too much to take in sitting here now, but I'm sure it will make sense once I start working on it.

[helloman]

lube and a screw drive once its picked. actul pretty easy

[WOT]

You can buy graphite suspended oil like this from a hardware store.
http://automotive.hardwarestore.com/11- ... 42646.aspx

If you can't find it, soak the whole lock in aggressive solvent, like carburetor cleaner and soak it. Work the lock, wash in solvent again.

After you let the solvent dry, use graphite fortified oil or dry graphite according to instruction.

[2octops]

I haven't been able to get the mortise case out of the door, but the latchplate looks exactly like that photo. One thing that concerns me is that the cylinder can be screwed out from the face plate just by putting a screwdriver into the keyway and twisting it counterclockwise. I'm thinking that that can't possibly be the correct way in which this lock was intended to be installed. Anyone have an idea about how the lock is supposed to be secured? Is there a missing nut that is supposed to screw on to the back of the cylinder?

There is a set screw coming from the latch side of the door that goes into the side groove of the mortise cylinder. It might be hidden behind the face plate for the lock bolt on the edge of the door.