introduction / pick technique question

[enmityst]

I'll start by saying that this site is ridiculously informative and entertaining -- as evidenced by the fact that it's 4am and I'm still up reading. I'm an electrical engineer by day, a budding blacksmith at night, and a shade-tree mechanic on the weekends, so I'm by no means a complete stranger to the world of locks. I'd always wanted to learn to pick locks and add it to my skillbox, and last week a neighbor locked herself out of her house and I ended up climbing up onto her garage roof and swinging into a second-story window to unlock the door for her, and it finally convinced me to follow up on lock picking. I ordered a handful of picks (Southord standard small half-diamond, medium hook, C-rake, and twist tension wrench) and picked up a padlock (Masterlock No. 140) and two 5-pin tumbler deadbolt cylinders (both off-brand Kwikset clones, I imagine) to practice with.

I set the padlock aside and set up both cylinders with two pins and worked on them for a while; then progressed to three, four, and five after I was consistently able to open them within a few minutes. After a while of picking the 5-pin cylinders, I tried my hand at the padlock. This all started at about 6pm tonight -- 10 hours ago or so. (Can you tell I was having fun?)

The locks I've been working have "quirks" that, having worked with them each for a few hours, I've learned to use to my advantage -- for example, one of my Kwikset clone cylinders seems to have a sticky 1st (5th? whichever is closest to the face plate) key pin, which inevitably will bind itself while I'm trying to pick the pins toward the back of the cylinder. However, I've found that I can set the first three pins in the sequence, binding the first key pin in the process, then very slightly release tension on the wrench, and the first key pin will unbind itself and, hey presto!, the lock is open, even though there're two pins I never (intentionally) set.

My Masterlock No. 140 padlock has a similar quirk; I set pin 2, then pin 4, then merely place my pick in a certain position (that I've learned completely by accident) and slightly release tension on the wrench, and the pins fall into place and the lock opens.

Am I just lucky? Or are my locks trash? I'm concerned that I'm learning the quirks rather than the art -- though, I suppose, if I can learn the quirks quickly enough when I'm faced with a lock I've never seen, I guess that wouldn't necessarily be a *bad* thing. Are occurrences like these common?

(Sorry for the long-winded post. My thanks to anyone who actually reads down this far. )

-b

[Hojo]

Well when it comes to picking locks it doesnt matter how you do it as heaps of people have their own method, so basicaly if it works do it, although Kwikset locks are known to be easy to pick and masters well there a start. If you live in australian I surgest you go and but a Lockwood (like a nice big one) such as a 234/45 with an I-core interchangeable cylinder there fun to muck around with, When i first started picking I had one of them and the good thing about them is that if you can pick them easyly you can change the pins really easy (mabey try putting in a spool or mushroom pin) but as i said before if it works use that method Although if you find yourself in a situation where your method wont work then i suggest you just keep trying that, eventually your pick that and youll learn a new method basicaly all locks are different and sometimes certain methods dont work...and have you tryed racking yet? Racking is a great start when your new, if you get one of your deadbolts try putting racking it and if your not succsessful keep on the tention and pick the others (thats what i do)

Well sorry about the boring post....

Hojo

[Hojo]

some of the stuff didnt really make sense sorry

[Chucklz]

Your Master 140, and possibly your Kwikset clone have some flavor of secutity pins. What you describe may be infact due to spool pins. Poke around for more info on spools.

[plot]

every lock seems to have a quirk, it's good to learn that early on. You are learning the right way though by progressing a pin at a time.

Welcome to the forums by the way, i'll have a EET degree in a year. good luck picking.

[enmityst]

Okay, so I solved the mystery of why my Kwikset clone opened without fail after setting only three pins -- two of the key pins were short enough (I guess they correspond to the key's highest possible cut) that the *top* of the corresponding driver pins were at the shear line before I ever even began picking the lock. Seems to me that's not a great feature as far as security goes

Anyway, as soon as I realized that, I cannibalized my other lock to get some longer key pins so that I actually have to pick all five before it'll open. It's a lot more satisfying, but I'm already proficient at it! I'll have to pick up some trick pins sometime in the near future.

As far as raking is concerned, I've barely even touched my rake (or my half-diamond, for that matter -- once I figured out the nuances of the hook, it quickly became my favorite). I like the satisfaction of manually setting all five pins cleanly, quickly, and with good feedback.

And yes, I'm almost certain my No. 140 has a trick pin or two in it; I'm thinking mushroom, because I've gotten to the last pin, "set" it, and the plug will rotate about 20-30 degrees -- and then stop and trap my pick in it. But I'm not certain.

-b

[WhiteHat]

as a change/challenge, you may want to put the cylinders into a vice and do it without holding them in your hand. you get a lot less feedback but it teaches you to rely on the feedback that you do get from the wrench.

congratulations on getting so far. one thing I've found with the "pins already at the shear line" is that sometimes if you're using a pick with a thick tang (non-slimline) sometimes when you're pushing on the back pins, you're touching the front pins with the tang of the pick.

and also so you know - pins are numbered from the front to the back, so pin 1 is the one that you can see when you look into the keyway.

Cheers,
WhiteHat

[enmityst]

as a change/challenge, you may want to put the cylinders into a vice and do it without holding them in your hand. you get a lot less feedback but it teaches you to rely on the feedback that you do get from the wrench.

That's a good point, I didn't think of that -- but alas my workbenches and vises are 120 miles away in storage, since I don't have enough space in my current garage for a workshop. Maybe I'll just bolt them to the hutch on my desk

Thanks for your comments!

-b

[Guitar_J]

I was thinking of making a mounting board for locks, something small.. just big enough to put a lock in it... I've been tempted to take the knob off of one of my other doors in the house (not to the outside) and put locks on them to practice opening them while not holding them...