Security Pins

[elbarto]

I just finished watching the visual guide to lock picking and seen a 3d animation on how security pins work.

Just a quick question for those of you who have been picking for a while, when your picking a lock can you general tell straight away if you are dealing with security pins and if so can you identify what sort?

I have read allot of posts suggesting very light tension to pick locks with these pins but even so, I imagine unless you can identify what sort of security pin you are dealing with you are going to have a hard time setting the pin.

Thanks

Elbarto

[Eyes_Only]

Well I'm sure you know what it feels like when you set a normal pin stack at the shearline, you can feel the plug turn a tiny tiny bit through the tension wrench. When you snag on a security pin you can feel the plug give two or three times more than when a normal pin stack is set.

This is true on spooled and mushroomed drivers but I've found this to not be the case with serrated drivers.

[elbarto]

Are serrated pins only effective if the driver holes are serrated also or do they still provide a convincing false set when placed into standard lock body.

I am yet to perfect SPP on standard pins, but after seeing these different security pins and how they work it really makes you appraciate how much of an art lock picking is.

[elbarto]

Are serrated pins only effective if the driver holes are serrated also or do they still provide a convincing false set when placed into standard lock body.

I am yet to perfect SPP on standard pins, but after seeing these different security pins and how they work it really makes you appraciate how much of an art lock picking is.

[Eyes_Only]

If the pin chambers are serrated in a lock using serrated drivers, that would add to more difficulty to picking attempts for sure. But I have never seen a lock with serrated pin chambers, much less serrated top pins (Master and American padlocks use serrated drivers but they are kind of a joke).

With serrated tumblers you just feel the pin stack setting over and over the more you lift them and it can be difficult to tell the difference between the real shearline and the serration grooves. So if you have no idea that a lock you're trying to pick utilizes serrated drivers it can give you a real headache.

I'm glad Schlage and Kwikset doesn't use such drivers otherwise I'd have a hard time when I get sent out on lockout calls. At home I'll spend as much time as I want to get any lock open but if I run into problems in the field and I've already spent 5 to maybe even 10 mins trying to pick a lock, I just whip out my pick gun. I think LSS noted that impact tools are one of the best ways to bypass serrated pins.

[Eyes_Only]

If the pin chambers are serrated in a lock using serrated drivers, that would add to more difficulty to picking attempts for sure. But I have never seen a lock with serrated pin chambers, much less serrated top pins (Master and American padlocks use serrated drivers but they are kind of a joke).

With serrated tumblers you just feel the pin stack setting over and over the more you lift them and it can be difficult to tell the difference between the real shearline and the serration grooves. So if you have no idea that a lock you're trying to pick utilizes serrated drivers it can give you a real headache.

I'm glad Schlage and Kwikset doesn't use such drivers otherwise I'd have a hard time when I get sent out on lockout calls. At home I'll spend as much time as I want to get any lock open but if I run into problems in the field and I've already spent 5 to maybe even 10 mins trying to pick a lock, I just whip out my pick gun. I think LSS noted that impact tools are one of the best ways to bypass serrated pins.

[Mad Dog]

Having both serrated pins and a chamber is not that smart..
If the pins hook the chamber somewhere you can't even open it with a key.. And doing serrated pins is much cheaper than doing a serrated chamber.

Anyways, serrated pins are kind of tricky.. Just pin your lock with 2-3 and try. Kind of fun when you get the hang of it.

[illusion]

Having both serrated pins and a chamber is not that smart..
If the pins hook the chamber somewhere you can't even open it with a key.. And doing serrated pins is much cheaper than doing a serrated chamber.

Anyways, serrated pins are kind of tricky.. Just pin your lock with 2-3 and try. Kind of fun when you get the hang of it.

Urmhhh... I haven't encountered a lock where the serrated pins hooked onto the chamber and prevented the key from being inserted.

Serrated chambers make the lock MUCH harder to pick - If you get one caught up then it's pretty much a guaranteed restart.

[Gordon Airporte]

Serrated pins act like shallow spools, which is pretty much what they are. The problem, as Eyes_Only alluded, is that they're so shallow you can almost ignore them. If you're really cranking the tension you get the mini-spool effect, though.

[elbarto]

Thanks for all the replies. When I finish off learning SPP effectively on my Lockwood door lock i will move to security pins (if i can find any to suit a lockwood) and see how I go. No doubt ill need your help again.

Thanks for the heads up

Elbarto

[Eyes_Only]

Try going to LockPicks.com and look under their pinning kit section when you'ready. They have a mini pin kit from LAB thats nothing but different sizes of spools and serrated drivers. I bought one a few months ago and it was money well spent.

[elbarto]

Eyes_only

Is this the kit you were talking about? I purchased a Lockwood pin kit from lockpicks.com last week so i could have a bit of a play around with diferent pins and what not as im sure a few pins and springs will come in handy sooner or later.

http://www.lockpicks.com/index.asp?Page ... ProdID=523[url]

I will probably buy this kit next time I decide I have the cash to ship some more stuff over from the US. Looks like a pretty sweet collection of pins. what diameter pins are they? My Lockwood had pins that measure 0.114" in diameter.

Thanks for the Info

Elbarto

[Eyes_Only]

This is the one I'm talking about, http://www.lockpicks.com/index.asp?Page ... ProdID=523 . I kind of got taken by surprise. It looks like they rearranged the pin kit section at LockPicks.com.