ingersoll

[plumber carl]

whats the position of a locksmith if he turns out to a ingersoll lock or padlock on non destructive opening basis.. As it appears, unless perhaps you have the skills of the few Dutch boys. its not going to go easy, do you destroy And if so what's the position of charging? wwwwwho pays for the new lock

[NickBristol]

It would be hard, probably impossible, to operate a 100% NDE service as a locksmith and that means sometimes you have to be destructive to some extent - how much destructive work you're prepared to do depends on your own professional and personal morals.

If you know you're going to a high security lock then honestly explain to the customer before you leave that a destructive entry / opening might be needed and leave them to decide if they book you. If you come across one on a 'normal' lockout where the customer hasn't told you / doesn't know what lock it is then again explain it, maybe backing it up with evidence from trade catalogues for example.

As regards replacing it after, what I do depends on the circumstances: if it is something like an Ingersoll that cant be bypassed by any of the well known methods and it needs to be drilled I'll replace the cylinder free-of-charge. OK it's not great to have to shell out trade price for an SC71 cylinder or whatever, but I bet that customer comes back to you again as well as recommending you to their friends in the future. You never know who'll turn out to be a good paying, long standing client ahead of time - one of my lockout clients turned out to be a high-end property developer who was impressed enough of someone sticking to their phone quote that he now uses me to fit all his locks in his developments, and not just bottom end stuff either!

If the client knows it's high security beforehand and accepts NDE might not work AND wants the lock replaced - not just opened - then whatever lock it is will be replaced at actual trade price plus vat on top of the lockout fee.

One final thing that I learnt is that being honest when you can't get in and calling someone who does know how isn't a sign of weakness - you learn from how they do it and you get some professional respect too.

[EvoRed]

What's the position of a plumber if he turns up to change a washer and has to damage and replace a bit of pipe to change it? Who pays for the new pipe?

[criminalhate]

Well around me they already include a small charge($5-10 dollars normally) on every repair for incidentals. Some jobs don't use that money for anything but they still collect it after x amount of jobs with no incidents it pays for that piece of pipe and fittings so they don't have to charge outright for it but they really do already charge you for it.

In my opinion if you have to drill tell them you have to and write up a new invoice for it and have them sign it. You should always have them sign something before starting any type of repair/service that way they know what they are getting into and you have a written / signed document to prove they knew what you were doing.

Use the auto industry as proof of this. They are not legally (in Michigan) aloud to do any work to your car with out your approval and they are not aloud to do any repairs over $75 more then the written invoice without writing up a new one or calling to confirm the new repair price. They also do the same with adding on a certain amount extra for every vehicle they touch even if they dop not use the money on your wehicle it goes to shop supplies like lube, nuts and bolts or anything else they never write on the invoice.

But as I mentioned before this only pertains to Michigan I do not know how it works any where else.

[greyman]

whats the position of a locksmith if he turns out to a ingersoll lock or padlock on non destructive opening basis.. As it appears, unless perhaps you have the skills of the few Dutch boys. its not going to go easy, do you destroy And if so what's the position of charging? wwwwwho pays for the new lock

Sorry - what's your question? Not many locksmiths would be up to NDE on an Ingersoll lock. By "Dutch Boys" - do you mean bump keys? There's no such thing for ingersoll (which is a lever/sidebar lock).

[Eyes_Only]

I think this may depend from situation to situation. I've never had to drill anything out to get the job done yet but I am willing to use some form of DE if it calls for it.

If I get called out to a job where the customer has lost the keys to their Club or the thing got jammed and wont come off and the customer is in a hurry, uses a cruciform lock or other weird locks that will take me too long to pick or I have tons of other calls stacked up on me and I'm in a hurry, I'll hook on the Club Buster and just snap the thing in half.

Of course I'll always ask the customer for permission before I do this. If they don't want me to break it off I'm usually willing to use another method instead.

[zeke79]

Actually I have had enough practice now that the ingersol ten lever mechanism is not all that terrible to pick. The trick I have learned is tension. These locks require way more tension than you are used to applying to a lock. I have a video I put together some time ago showing the procedure I used to pick the lock if anyone is interested.

[Eyes_Only]

I'm interested!

[Raccoon]

By "Dutch Boys" - do you mean bump keys? There's no such thing for ingersoll (which is a lever/sidebar lock).

By "Dutch Boys", he means the lockpicking/locksport folks from abroad who stereotypically have superior lockpicking skills than anyone in North America.