What's a good next step?

[Slickness81]

I haven't made any good picks yet, but I have been able to pick all the 5 pin locks at my house and my parents house. I am using a bent needle as my tensioner and a paperclip. I plan on starting to make picks, but I really am more intersted in the locks than equipment. I picked my first 5 pin in less than 3 minutes. I have already disassembled a lock and changed the pins around, still easy. Obviously a 6 pin or 7 pin would be the next step, but I'm looking for a design difference not just more pins. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[LockDFTR]

First thing, what kind/brand of locks are you picking?

If you have been practicing on a kwickset keyway, there are more challenging brands out there. Or, if the bitting for lock has little variation, it may not matter what order you scramble them into.

You don't necessarily have to find a lock with more pins. Try a lock with a tighter keyway like a yale or best ICC. You can also try putting a few security pins in the locks you have now. And yes, you can move onto a six, and even seven pin lock if you choose.

As you get better and more consistant, move onto higher security locks. Try some different padlocks, various brands and models. There are plenty of locks out there waiting for you. Happy picking

[Legacy712]

When you say "I have been able to pick all the 5 pin locks at my house and my parents house," it leads me to believe you are picking locks which are in use.

If that's true, as anyone here will tell you, that's not a very good idea, as you could damage the lock.

If you look through the threads in these forums, you will find an answer to your question.

[Slickness81]

The Locks I have picked so far are 2 schlages, 3 pegasus, and 1 kwikset, and one I am not sure of(this one took a little longer). I used one of the pegasus for changing the pins around, as it seemed to have the tightest keyway. Other than the unidentified, none of them seemed to be any harder than the others. I could see how damage could occur with raking on these locks, but I took them all apart before attempting to pick them and don't really see how spp'ing them would damage them, except for trying to force a pin under too much pressure. They all still function correctly, but have already gotten boring. The security pin thing I am interested in. Since the search utility on this site isn't the greatest I've had trouble identifying what a "security pin" is. But this sounds more like what I mean by design changes.

[LockDFTR]

Security pins are specially shaped driver pins. There are different kinds such as; spool pins, mushroom pins, serrated pins, serrated spool pins, etc...

They are shaped just like their names would indicate. Check this site, or on the web, and you should be able to find pictures of them.

There are even serrated bottom pins too, but don't worry about those now.
You may even want to try pinning your PRACTICE lock with a tricky bitting. A lot of ups and downs, peaks and valleys.

But, if you are breezing through all of your locks, why not just buy a higher security lock?

[Slickness81]

I am really interested in buying a higher security lock, but don't want to jump from elementary school to the pro's. What I am looking for, is a lock that is a step or 2 above the typical home lock, without going too far over my head. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm looking for a specific model that will help me progress. As I said in my first post, I'm using a bent leather needle as my tensioner and a paperclip as my pick. I want a lock that will force me to make a pick that works. My other issue is that raking seems like guess work to me, If I knew which lock to move on to, I could figure out how to make the correct pick. While I assume there are different picks that will work for multiple designs, I think my mind is more geared towards the specialty work. For example, any lock models you have had particular trouble with or that you have learned alot from would help.

PS. I have been an automotive mechanic for about 5 years, and could fix anything that broke around the house since I was a little kid. I think I have the feel part down, due to my life experience, I just want a tougher puzzle, that won't discourage me.

Thanks for the feedback so far

[LockDFTR]

By no means, are all high security locks considered, the pros.

You may want to move on to some padlocks. Many American, Abus, or even some Master locks could provide a nice test for you. (They will have security pins in them)

Or you can try buying some security pins, or maybe someone on here has some they would be willing to send you. Then just key up a lock with them.

As far as raking being guesswork...... that is partly true. There is some skill involved in being able to consistantly rake open locks. In my opinion, it has to do with the tension. But there is luck involved too.
Are you going to buy/make any real picks? There are tons of how to's, and templates, etc... on here.

Not too many locks have ever given me trouble. In the ten plus years I have been picking, any lock I couldn't open, I eventually opened by persistance. By all means, there are some locks I cannot open yet. And there were some easy locks that kicked my ars.

But by understanding the lock, I knew I could open it.

My suggestion:
Buy a high security lock, buy/make some real tools, make sure you have plenty of yoohoo and hot pockets, and go to war!

[Arcturus]

Part of your growth as a lockpicker is in knowing when to use the right tool. At some point, you'll realize that paperclips just aren't cutting it. You'll definitely want to make your own tools from piano wire or flat steel. It shouldn't be difficult at all for someone like yourself, since you've already got mechanical experience and access to basic shop tools.

As suggested earlier, get some security pins (try posting a WTB in the buy/sell section here). You should also pick up some rekeying kits so you can practice on more challenging high-low bittings (you can actually buy repinning kits at your local home improvement center these days). You've gotten used to picking the existing pin depths, but the real world isn't based on a handful of depths. You need to expose yourself to the wide range of bittings possible with your particular lock.

When buying the rekeying kit, don't look at the pins. Corner a tolerant friend or relative into dropping the lower pins into the plug for you while your back is turned. That way, you can practice with unknown bittings.

Arcturus

[Arcturus]

Oh, and another thing, look into some used Sargent cylinders. Some of those keyways are paracentric and present quite a good challenge for the aspiring picker.

[datagram]

Some good locks you can pick up that will be harder than what you have:

Schlage deadbolt (make sure it has security pins)
Brinks shrouded padlocks
Yale cylinders, security pins optional
BEST cylinders, pretty hard, a decent jump from what you're doing
Non biaxial Medecos
Schlage Everest, will require you make a special tool for the side pin, or get creative with a half diamond

There are a few decent Master padlocks, but I do not know their model numbers. Anyone else care to chime in?

In my experiences, there is definitely a huge gap once you're able to pick standard locks with security pins. After that, you're left with sidebar based locks and harder. Medecos will probably be the easiest sidebar lock to pick (with help from the m3 bypass and the medecoder) Things like the Primus and ASSA Twin(s) are just ruthless, and we won't even get into EVVA and the rest...

[op-sec]

Master #911, #930, #572 are all decent padlocks (picking wise) to go to as you advance your skill-set.