Intro & question for Canadians

[WhiteHat]

nope, all I got was the mobius curve... don't you just have to pick a starting point, measure allong until you get back to the starting point and then multiply it by the width?

[Romstar]

nope, all I got was the mobius curve... don't you just have to pick a starting point, measure allong until you get back to the starting point and then multiply it by the width?

You might think that, and you would be correct if you were referring simply to a mobius strip.

A mobius curve is somewhat different. Unlike the simple high school construct of an essentially two dimensional strip in three dimensional space, a mobius curve is a three dimensional object.

Despite the fact that it would appear to have volume, it also has an immense surface area.

Consider for a moment that it is entirely possible that the universe itself is constructed like a huge mobius curve.

This presents the possibility that you are in fact measuring the surface area of not simply two dimensions, but of three. Three planes which wrap in upon themselves while never crossing.

The construct is simplistic in it's design, but maddeningly difficult to calculate for surface area.

Romstar

[logosys]

Yes.

The Moebius Curve is a Honest to God Hell on Earth to deal with. I'm glad I'm done with that class forever...

Next, I get to take Chaos Theory.

How long is the English Coast?

[Romstar]

Oh wonderful, fractal gemometry.

Are you looking for an assumptive or derived result?

Assumptive would get you a near infinite result. However, since we know that not to be true, there must be a solution to the equation.

At what point do we limit the variables so that it arrives at a managable number?

As we know, all things in nature have limits. They are acted upon by forces and effects of other natural phenomenon.

While mathematically we can assume that the English coast is infinite, we know this not to be true based upon the very fact that it is bounded upon not only by itself, but by the ocean which surrounds it. So, despite what the equation may tell us, there is another unknown variable which limits it's spread in nature to an infinite sum.

These are the limits of fractal geometry and chaos equations upon actual natural objects.

Romstar

[WhiteHat]

I did an asignment on string theory in highschool - I found it facinating but I really don't have time to spend on things that don't directly or even indirectly help me get allong in life - lockpicking increases my physical dexterity, thinking about theoretical models of the universe isn't very profitable to me and so I don't usually do it. however, I do like good fiction.

has anyone read Asimov's "the last question" - short story about the nature of the universe.

einstein said that there was only two things that were infinate: the universe and human stupidity, then he said that he wasn't sure about the first one.

Que sera, sera and all that...

[Romstar]

If the universe if everything, and the universe is expanding...........

What the devil is it expanding INTO?

Just a little food for thought.

Romstar

[WhiteHat]

yes, that's always been a problem that I've had with the big bang theory...

....must....resist... temptation.....to.....talk....about......religion.......against......forum.....rules.......


I like this article... let's leave it at that:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/10.12/holytech.html

it's a very good read if you have a few spare moments.

After stripping away all externalities, all material embellishments, what remains is the purest state of existence: here/not here. Am/not am. In the Old Testament, when Moses asks the Creator, "Who are you?" the being says, in effect, "Am." One bit. One almighty bit. Yes. One. Exist. It is the simplest statement possible.

[Romstar]

That's a wonderful philosophy, and I can see the appeal. However, it is fudamentally flawed in that it does not recognize the inevitable entropic loss as each equation breaks down.

Leaving tiny fractional pieces behind as you approach the infantesimal point of nothing, you acheive a state whereby all things are mapped, and the debris of your mapping is left behind you as a digital humus.

This fractional breakdown is the very thing that prevents us from creating a perfect model of anything.

As I stated previously in my comment about fractal geometry, the mathematics would suggest that the English coast is infinite. We know however that this cannot be true entirely BECAUSE it is bounded by other natural phenomonon.

Certainly I can see the appeal. The universe as equation, the universe as computer. A great spinning mass of never ending matematical equations. Forever manifesting itself as physical mass. Information, equations, all alive and struggling to redefine itself as the binary sequence that gave it rise in the first place.

The notion that a computer can "feel" emotion is as foolish as it is novel. It at the same time illuminates the human state, and degrades it as well. What need do we have anymore of Bach, Mozart, Shakespear, Bethoven, Einstein, Hawking or any of the innumerable and innevitable geniuses that have marked our passing in history?

All of the inumerable endeavours of the human heart, mind and soul. What do any of these mean if they can simply be codified as the inevitable result of a binary sequence that was shaped simply by it's existance?

There is something more at work here. Whether it is the inevitable collection of all the remain fractions that fail to fit neatly into the equation, or whether it is something more remains to be seen. Perhaps, it is, in the end irrelevant.

Merely, I AM.

Romstar

[Mad Mick]

Wow Rom........now my head hurts!

[WhiteHat]

Now I could understand that! nice speach!

[Mad Mick]

I got lost about ten posts previous.....I need to lie down.

Explain something mechanically and i can visualise pretty well, but all that mathematical formulae and time-space-continuum stuff may as well be Tibetanese....unless you have access to some serious psychadelics.

[Romstar]

Now I could understand that! nice speach!

Thanks.

Romstar

[Romstar]

I got lost about ten posts previous.....I need to lie down.

Explain something mechanically and i can visualise pretty well, but all that mathematical formulae and time-space-continuum stuff may as well be Tibetanese....unless you have access to some serious psychadelics.

Sorry I lost you.

I hope your headache goes away soon.

Romstar