Klom tubular pick - a major problem

[chacal]

The first thing I would like to say is "Hi everybody!" - this is my first post, and I would like to greet all fellow locksporters . I'm in fiddling with locks for over four years now - I've mostly used manual picks for the enjoyment of opening a lock, but after I've seen the possibilities and wide arrange of locksmithing tools on Deal Extreme I've decided to buy a few of them, go pro (in Poland you must pass a series of tests in order to become a certified locksmith), and open a small business. The problems started the moment I've recived my tubular pick from DX (I've previously ordered two sets of 6$ lockpicks, and one comb set, which arrived properly if not to mention a few bent picks). At the first moment it was hard for me to define what was the cause of the problem. I've ignored the fixed handle, because my intent was to prevent it from moving some time later. What concerned me the most were the needles and their working order - some do not show any signs of resistance while operating them, while others (especially the one on the very bottom, the fourth needle) show some trouble while trying to operate them. This was resulting in the needles setting at quite random depths while inserting the pick into the lock. I've tried to make something about that, so I've dismantled the pick, cleaned the main rod form grime and remains of silicone oil, straightened the needles (some were quite bent), and carefully put everything back. I've applied a drop of silicone oil under the bottom needle to make the moving resistance lower. Sadly - everything had little effect. After hours of practice I've come to a point, where the notches created on the pick are closer to the ones on the original key, but still - the lowest notch is never as deep as it should be, while the one on its left (while looking from the side where the button is) usually ends up at a depth that no key could possibly have.

How I can fix that? I know that DX sells items of various quality, but even if they wanted to replace that pick for me, the cost of shipping it back do HK would be higher for me than that of buying a new pick. Please help me lockpicking101 - you are my only hope .

PS. One more thing - tightening the screw on the collar makes most of the pins work as they proubably should (they don't fall down so often). Sadly (again) the bottom needle is firmly fixed and it doesn't move at all...

PPS. Could it be the low quality of the lock I'm trying this pick on? I didn't pay much for it because it's used, but the key operates it just fine so I don't see a problem. With the help of decoder I have even transfered the notches from the key to the pick, tightened the collar and after a 10 seconds the lock was open. If this would be the main reason then it would be great but before that I would like to check every other possibility - these locks are uncommon in Poland and getting one isn't that easy.

[raimundo]

I have made these picks and after the gross assembly, they seem to need a few days of tweaking, you've already done much of that, with the dissasembly and cleaning, lubing etc, My tweaking also involves some minor sanding in a few places.
perhaps you can find another lock to try it on, once you have it working on a lock, you know how to use it and this should help. these things do not require much torque and too much may be a problem.
When a slider starts to get sticky, I first take it out and switch it with the loosest one so that they can maybe balance each other.
I sand the last quarter inch of the barrel of the tool with very fine sand paper to reduce friction, and I do this with the sliders in, held in by some Orings from the hardware store, I pull them back into the tool just a little bit so that they do not get the sliders rounded on the part tha contacts the pins, it is not a problem if the barrel of the tool has the sharp edge of the tip rounded a bit, but the sanding is not intended to round this, its just an effect that is part of sanding the last quarter inch of the barrel and the sliders by wrapping a bit of fine sandpaper around it and twisting it in the wrap. No need to over do it, but a bit of smooth helps. After sanding this area, you can push the sliders in and out a bit to take advantage of any grit that has gone into the grooves and gotten under the sliders, this will perhaps reduce the friction at the steel to steel bottom of the groove.
Even the best of these types of tools needs tweaking, even if it worked well 6 months ago, when you come back to it, it needs to be limbered up.

If you give up on tweaking it, you could send it to me to look at, perhaps I could get it running then send it back to you. Thats just and option that Im offering, if you want to try it.


Also, consider replacing any rubber friction rings on the tool if necessary. these rings are tight on the sliders and in long storage or unuse, they can become stuck to that part of the slider.

[raimundo]

I forgot to ask if your lock says ACE II on it, this type of lock has both copper and stainless springs in it and they are there to make a tubular pick difficult to use, as the pressure differential makes it hard to get the tool set right.
perhaps its some knockoff no name lock that has this anyway, everything gets copied, take a small probe and press back the pins and see if there is a differential in the springs.

[chacal]

Wow - thanks for the lightning-fast reply . Since I'm not from US, sending the pick to you would be "uneconomical" . But due to your precise tips I'll take the tool today to my workshop, and try to sand it, replace the Orings, and balance the needles.
And you've also solved my main problem. Even before the pick arrived, I've checked the springs inside the lock, and figured out that the resistance of two pins varies a bit from the others. After fiddling with it in my workshop I'll test the pick on another lock, and try to open this one but with setting the two needles corresponding the pins with more resistance manually.

I'll post the effects of the whole operation when I'm done with it .

[chacal]

Still nothing - after doing all of the listed above, trying the pick on several other locks I still don't see any signs of success... It's kind of annoying when I see other pepole on the net picking various locks with this pick while I still can't handle it after a few weeks. I've checked every part of it - somebody had a similar problem to mine with the HPC pick, but the faulty part was a metal collar pressing against the orings - mine is absolutly flat and look like it's in working order.

Lockpicking 101 - any ideas? Every little one would be helpful.

[mh]

What's the intended behaviour of the pick?
On cheap tubular locks, the driver pins all have the same length, so pushing all the needles in will automatically set the correct key code? If this is what you are trying to achieve, why does low friction matter?
Cheers
mh

[chacal]

What's the intended behaviour of the pick?
On cheap tubular locks, the driver pins all have the same length, so pushing all the needles in will automatically set the correct key code? If this is what you are trying to achieve, why does low friction matter?
Cheers
mh

Nope - I'm trying the pick on a camlock sort of tubular lock - the pins vary in lenght and in resistance caused by the springs. Every time I try to open this lock the pins set in a quite similar manner, but with slight to minor differences which prevents the lock from opening.