Key Cutting Question

[mattman]

I rekeyed a couple's house today. They had just bought the house, and they wanted the locks changed, and all of them keyed to the same key. It was 1 deadbolt and 4 knob locks.

So I cut a key by code using my depth and space keys, keyed the locks to that key, and the key and locks worked perfectly. They wanted two copies of the key, so I thought that since this was a "first generation" key, I would simply duplicate it, and that would be it. So I duplicated it, and the copied key would not work in any lock at all. I was confused. So I decided to cut another key by code using my depth and space keys, and that key worked perfect.

Does anyone have any ideas why the key cut by code would work, and the copied one wouldn't? My key cutting machine was set exactly the same for both, so there's no difference in how I had it adjusted. It just has me wondering.

Thanks for any help anyone could give.

-Matt

[LocksmithArmy]

my only guess is that your depth and space keys may have been a hare shorter or longer than theblanks you used to copy. it worked fine for the depth keys but when you put the blank in your key machine it fit differently than the depth keys...

so when u used your new cut blanks to make a new key it was off a bit...

thats all i got... best guess, its never happened to me so i couldnt be sure.

hope that helped

[lockrite]

This is a simple and common fault.
Your key machines spacing and/or depth is incorrectly set.
Realign your machine.

When you first cut the original key using your space and depth keys you did infact miscut it.
You keyed the locks to that key so they worked fine.
When you tried to duplicate the key you were once again miscutting the key again. So the combinded tolerance variation prevented the second key from working.
Of course when you cut another key using your space and depth keys once again you were in fact replicating the same miscut as the first key (the one you keyed the locks to) you cut.

The fault lies in your machines adjustment

Hope this helps

[jimb]

I have had this happen when I have different brands of locks. Like you have a Kwikset and some Kwikset knock offs, or a Defiant or Wieser with kwiksets. When I see this and the customer wants them all keyed to the same key I will ask how may keys they want before I start. Then I will take my original key and copy all new keys and rekey to the copies. I don't even use the original key.

[lockrite]

I have had this happen when I have different brands of locks. Like you have a Kwikset and some Kwikset knock offs, or a Defiant or Wieser with kwiksets. When I see this and the customer wants them all keyed to the same key I will ask how may keys they want before I start. Then I will take my original key and copy all new keys and rekey to the copies. I don't even use the original key.

That's a good practice and habit to get into.
At least you know all your keys are cut the same before you even start keying

[Wizer]

Silca unocode 399 helps

[mattman]

This is a simple and common fault.
Your key machines spacing and/or depth is incorrectly set.
Realign your machine.

I checked my machine's alignment, and it seems to be set up perfect, so I don't know what the problem was.

Personally, for me, I don't have any problem cutting each key by code, since the only time I cut keys for customers is when I am rekeying. I have a deal with the local hardware store where they send me customers, and supply me with locks, key blanks, etc., and in return I buy my supplies from them, and send them customers who simply want a key duplicated. It works out pretty good. I get a lot of referrals, and don't have to keep a huge key inventory on hand. And they get customers, and sell a lot of locksmithing supplies. Everyone is happy, and it's supporting local business.

-Matt

[Raymond]

I agree with several of the previous posters. The code cut key """may""" be off on the spacing. When pinning you might be dropping a pin onto the angled ramp of the cut instead of the flat. If this is the case, almost any change in spacing on the duplicate will result in a miscut as the movement on the angle is magnified.

In my forty something years of playing with locks I see more problems with spacing on duplicates than any other problem.

I also use the technique of cutting duplicates to one original and selling only the duplicates and void the original after I have cut all the required duplicates.

[mattman]

I agree with several of the previous posters. The code cut key """may""" be off on the spacing. When pinning you might be dropping a pin onto the angled ramp of the cut instead of the flat.

Hello Raymond,

The locks that I rekeyed were Kwiksets, and I used my Kwikset pinning kit to repin them. So I used, for example, a #4 pin for a #4 cut. Now, if I was dropping a pin onto the angled ramp of the cut instead of the flat, the #4 pin wouldn't work, would it? But all of the pins fit perfectly with the corresponding cuts, and the locks worked great. Hmmm... I'm still wondering.

Thanks,
Matt

[Raymond]

Hey Mattman,

Now I am really confused. You say the lock fits the #4 pin perfectly. Is that with the code cut key or the duplicate, or both? If the pin "fits perfectly", then it should work. What puzzle piece are you not giving us?

This is getting curiouser and curiouser. Some blanks have a different bottom shoulder.
Are you setting your keys in the vice and gauging them by the top or bottom shoulder?
Try gauging one from directly on the cutting wheel and guide.
Depending on the brand of blanks you are using, could they be setting at different heights in the lock due to the grooves being slightly different or were they the same blank for the code-cut and duplicate?
Use a micrometer to verify the calibration of your key machine.
Please let us know if you figure it out.