Problem picking my own active outside doors.

[unlocke]

I've been practicing locking picking for 5 months on and on. I had to stop for a while due to work and that's held me back a bit. I have a bit of a problem picking working doors. I'm able to pick unattached locks up to 5 pins in a few minutes if they aren't anything special. What I don't understand is why I can't pick the locks on the outside doors to my own house. I have many doors I can work with but the problem is the same; I can usually get the tension wrench to turn the keyway halfway before it stops and I'm unable to pick futher.

What's funny is the brand of lock around my house is only kwikset or defiant and I've picked the locks when they were not attached to a door! I'm guessing the added resistance makes a fully working lock in a door harder to pick, this is something need to get over.

Any ideas how to get better at picking my working doors? I want to ditch the hidden keys around my house and simply carry my picks in the car. My best idea at the moment is to add some easy practice locks to my own bedroom and start learning to pick that way. I think I'll spend more time working with doors and less on the padlocks and cylinders I have lying around.

[Squelchtone]

Any ideas how to get better at picking my working doors? I want to ditch the hidden keys around my house and simply carry my picks in the car.

Why don't you keep a spare key in your car or wallet instead of picks, or try to remember to keep your keys in your pocket? your logic is flawed.

we see this time and time again here.. 'i keep getting locked out of my dorm room/apt/house/office' so I want to learn lockpicking. yeah.. you keep forgetting keys, but youre gonna remember a lockpick set?

and don't pick locks that are in use, you obviously have not mastered picked a lock in use, so there's a good chance that one of these days when you're bored and practicing, you will break something, and then that door becomes unlockable or unusable.

this hobby may not be for you.
Squelchtone

[hydruh]

Any ideas how to get better at picking my working doors?

What you want to say is "any way to get better at picking mounted locks?" That is really what you want to do. You don't want to break into people's houses, so 'working' doors aren't what you are interested in. Right? RIGHT?

OK, now that this is settled, I can't say that I blame you. TOOOL's own speed picking competition uses mounted deadbolts. You gotta practice.

The best bet is getting a cheap scrap door from a place like ReStore, cutting a piece off of it and then drilling new lock mounts into it. This takes time and tools but it SO worth it. If you get excited, you can even build a mini frame for it. But just putting the deadbolt into a door setup is plenty good enough for practice.

S

[Tyler J. Thomas]

you obviously have not mastered picked a lock in use, so there's a good chance that one of these days when you're bored and practicing, you will break something, and then that door becomes unlockable or unusable.

Assuming he's picking from the outside, and that's a safe assumption since he's telling everyone he's wanting to learn to pick his way in, what lock on the market today or introduced in the past 50 years on a residential scale has ever required the outer cylinder to be functioning in order to lock or unlock the door from the inside? There is a reason independent tail pieces and cams and split spindles exist.

Theoretically, the only time an outer cylinder would begin to interact with the inner is if the bolt were in the process of being thrown or retracted and that seems like a highly unlikely time for a pick to break considering that the plug is moving with the force of object(s) inside.

Even if he were to damage the outside cylinder, there isn't much of a change in life safety. He's still going to be able to secure the door from the inside until someone more qualified is able to come out and repair the lock. Unless he lives in a house with just one lock on one door he'll be fine until help arrives.

[MacGyver101]

. . . what lock on the market today or introduced in the past 50 years on a residential scale has ever required the outer cylinder to be functioning in order to lock or unlock the door from the inside?

Well, many (most?) North American residential deadbolts will stop working if the outer cylinder is rotated 180°.

There have been dozens of new members who've managed to pick their deadbolt, turn the cylinder half-way around, and then get stuck when the drivers enter the bottom of the keyway and jam the cylinder. At that point (with the deadbolt on my front door anyhow), you would not be able to unlock the door if it was locked (even from the inside)... and you couldn't lock the door if it was unlocked.

I'm not saying that it's hard to unjam the cylinder at that point... but it's a common trap that new folks find themselves in, and (in my mind, anyhow) it's not something that you want to be figuring out for the first time when you've just made your front door unopenable.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Well, many (most?) North American residential deadbolts will stop working if the outer cylinder is rotated 180°.

Like I said, it's unlikely that he will break a pick, damage a tumbler or tumblers, or any portion of the lock when the plug is rotating with the force that is being applied, but your second paragraph doesn't seem to implicate this, rather drivers seizing the plug so I'll leave my argument at that.

There have been dozens of new members who've managed to pick their deadbolt, turn the cylinder half-way around, and then get stuck when the drivers enter the bottom of the keyway and jam the cylinder. At that point (with the deadbolt on my front door anyhow), you would not be able to unlock the door if it was locked (even from the inside)... and you couldn't lock the door if it was unlocked.

I fail to see how that's a result of him "damaging" his lock. That is a result of the key not being there, not because he damaged his lock. It's an easy fix, but that's purely my opinion and it's a rather tainted one at that considering I do this all day long and those kind of fixes are second nature to me at this point.

Additionally, there is a possibility of auxiliary locks on the door which would still allow for the door to be secured but that's purely a possibility.

I'm not saying that it's hard to unjam the cylinder at that point... but it's a common trap that new folks find themselves in, and (in my mind, anyhow) it's not something that you want to be figuring out for the first time when you've just made your front door unopenable.

Understandable and I see where you're coming from. I guess I just feel the need to speak out that you're highly unlikely to damage a lock to the point where it poses a life safety issue.

Valid point, nonetheless.

[unlocke]

Any ideas how to get better at picking my working doors? I want to ditch the hidden keys around my house and simply carry my picks in the car.

Why don't you keep a spare key in your car or wallet instead of picks, or try to remember to keep your keys in your pocket? your logic is flawed.

we see this time and time again here.. 'i keep getting locked out of my dorm room/apt/house/office' so I want to learn lockpicking. yeah.. you keep forgetting keys, but youre gonna remember a lockpick set?

and don't pick locks that are in use, you obviously have not mastered picked a lock in use, so there's a good chance that one of these days when you're bored and practicing, you will break something, and then that door becomes unlockable or unusable.

this hobby may not be for you.
Squelchtone

Cute...

I forget how the internet world is structured, insults without merit are far too common online. Since I work and I'm training to be a pharmacy tech. That is the main reason I don't have all day to practice picking locks. I'd be able to open doors that do not have security pins by now but my time is very limited for practicing.

Why don't you keep a spare key in your car or wallet instead of picks, or try to remember to keep your keys in your pocket? your logic is flawed.

Mainly because it doesn't impress people that I can open padlocks. When I mention to a date that I can pick locks she wants to see a door opened. At home it would be fun to use a pick instead of key every once in a while. I would still carry my own keys, just something fun to do.

Anyway would you please not insinuate that I'm some kind of criminal. Besides that picking locks to break into a house would be a slow and lousy way to go about it, let's be serious. If a person started a thread asking about alarm systems and bump keys I would start to wonder but I'm asking about picking locks on a forum about locks!

and don't pick locks that are in use, you obviously have not mastered picked a lock in use, so there's a good chance that one of these days when you're bored and practicing, you will break something, and then that door becomes unlockable or unusable.

I have no problems trying to pick locks in use because I'm very gentle. Besides that I have learned is how to change the pins on locks and take them apart. It's a huge hassle to do it with my own doors but not very difficult.

this hobby may not be for you.

I think you confusing me for a child or a stupid young college student. I find it relaxing working with locks.

Any ideas how to get better at picking my working doors?

What you want to say is "any way to get better at picking mounted locks?" That is really what you want to do. You don't want to break into people's houses, so 'working' doors aren't what you are interested in. Right? RIGHT?

OK, now that this is settled, I can't say that I blame you. TOOOL's own speed picking competition uses mounted deadbolts. You gotta practice.

The best bet is getting a cheap scrap door from a place like ReStore, cutting a piece off of it and then drilling new lock mounts into it. This takes time and tools but it SO worth it. If you get excited, you can even build a mini frame for it. But just putting the deadbolt into a door setup is plenty good enough for practice.

S

Enough with the criminal stuff, it's puerile to even discuss it. I have job at an airport, and I'll assume you have job. Those that break into houses tend to be druggies or hoodlums with no education and nothing to lose.

I could have used exact terminology but I was unaware I'd get this kind of response.

The best bet is getting a cheap scrap door from a place like ReStore, cutting a piece off of it and then drilling new lock mounts into it. This takes time and tools but it SO worth it. If you get excited, you can even build a mini frame for it. But just putting the deadbolt into a door setup is plenty good enough for practice.

I was thinking the same thing about cutting off the part of a door that already has lock mounts in it. I know practice is the trick that's probably my best bet.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

Anyways, back on topic.

Picking a lock mounted on a door is always going to be harder than picking that same lock in your hand. In your hand, you can maneuver the lock to your preference - not the case with a lock mounted on a door. It's going to require more skill (which you'll develop as you practice) to learn to adapt to a lock that's not going to change positions or suit your preferences and it's going to require a better understanding and sensitivity to tension being applied.

Just keep practicing on it and you'll be fine. Oh, and apply some lubricant before you begin picking. The brass Kwikset uses seems to have an uncanny ability to corrode and it causes the pins to stick like no other.

If by some freak chance it happens to "break" for whatever reason - take it off the door, take some pictures and post them and I'll be more than happy to tell you how to fix it.

Good luck.

[unlocke]

Anyways, back on topic.

Picking a lock mounted on a door is always going to be harder than picking that same lock in your hand. In your hand, you can maneuver the lock to your preference - not the case with a lock mounted on a door. It's going to require more skill (which you'll develop as you practice) to learn to adapt to a lock that's not going to change positions or suit your preferences and it's going to require a better understanding and sensitivity to tension being applied.Good luck.

I think that's the exact reason why it's more difficult. Until get a piece of a front door I might just just change the lock on my own front door to a 3 pin with a 3,2,1 picking order for simple practice to begin with as I have some extra time now.

[Squelchtone]

Cute...

I forget how the internet world is structured, insults without merit are far too common online.

Nothing I wrote was meant to insult, or to embarass, or demean you in anyway, and if you took it as such, then you need to grow a thicker skin and not take things so personally. I realize that internet forums are tricky because you can't hear the person's tone of voice, but I think I'm articulate enough in my writing, that I don't come off as an 8th grader saying "na na poo poo, you're a douche" (that would probably be considered insulting and childish) What I wrote to you was just good advice.

We just happen get a lot of people here who say they get locked out a lot and they'd like to carry a pickset, and that's silly because carrying a spare key seems like a smaller footprint in your pocket or wallet, than a bulging pickset. This doesn't mean I think you're a criminal at all, but when one of your first posts is how to pick locked doors it will raise eye brows. On the topic of "this is a picking site, and I'm here to talk about picking locked doors, so don't jump on me for being a criminal" Well, sure it's a site about picking locks, but it's about picking locks that are sitting on our workbenches, or locks we hold in our hand, not about going around to every lock you see in the neighborhood and trying to pick them (not to say you're going to do this, but many people who come here, get the picking bug, do stupid things, and mess it up for the rest of us.) Unfortunately, our society, popular culture, the media, et all, have all done a great job of demonizing anyone with lock picks, so it really wouldn't help our cause to walk around saying, yeah, we pick locks for fun, and we pick any and all door locks that we walk up to. People would not take that very well and would in fact immediately consider each and every one of us a probable criminal.

We work hard to weed out bored teenagers, scofflaws, people posting pics of a washing machine coin box and asking how to open them, etc, because we want to legitimize this hobby as something fun and interesting to do, just as you want to have fun and switch things up when doing stuff with locks around your own house. As for impressing girls, it may work better for you to learn how to dance or cook. Surprisingly enough, most girls get very creeped out when they find out their date can pick locks, so you may want to keep that under your hat until she becomes your girlfriend and you can both share the picking interest as something cool to do together.

I hope you can at least read this and say... hmmm I see what he's saying and understand where he's coming from.

Happy Picking,
Squelchtone

[raimundo]

all that said, its not unusual for new members to fall into this discussion, they don't know that the forum has a few tripwires that they are going to run into. Just go to profile and look for the earliest posts of the people who are calling you out and see if they did not run into it themselves.
hobbiests pick locks in their hands, and mounted on boards, and I really believe that they do try their own doors. Inexperienced hands can get the bottom of keyway drop in and think the lock is broken, its not. and there is the problem of masterkeyed systems that have such thin wafer pins that such pins can fall into the empty keyway when the lock is turned 180 degrees, this is a real problem and it will require greater knowlege to repair it.
the site is not just hobbiests,
we have locksmiths, LEO's like unlisted, security professionals in every stripe, building maintanence and building owners, the occasional repo man, private eye, and probably many more whom I do not recall at this time, the site is full of interesting people with a common interset, and the most interesting thing to me are the exploits of those who are creating new things new techniques, etc.

Even locksmiths have occasionally crapped a cylinder picking or disassembling, and they usually have the means to replace it. but it does happen.

[NanoDuke]

Back to the OP's question. Just go to your local hardware store, buy a block of wood, some deadbolts, mount the locks in the wood, and voila! A "working" door

Or go to an electrical hobbyist store and buy a mounting block. One that clamps onto the edge of a desk with a rotating table on it. Clamp the cylinders onto that horizontally and go nuts.


Maybe it's the fact that you're squatting or standing akwardly while trying to pick your door, as opposed to sitting in the comfort of your lounge while picking padlocks. Pick one of your padlocks that you can crack easily, and place it in a bench vice, and see if it's still just as easy to pick.

[Tyler J. Thomas]

I think that's the exact reason why it's more difficult. Until get a piece of a front door I might just just change the lock on my own front door to a 3 pin with a 3,2,1 picking order for simple practice to begin with as I have some extra time now.

Also, you may run into situations on your home or any mounted lock for that matter where the frame's molding actually prevents you from placing your tension wrench where it should be. Then you're looking at having to place the tension wrench in a manner that maybe you have never done before. In situations like these, I just pick the lock towards the locked position and use my plug spinner to move it in the unlocked position. This is not the norm by any measure given that most locks retract the bolt with the key turning counterclockwise but you will run into some oddities such as mis-installed deadbolts that are upside down, etc.

Then there's other factors to account for such as a bolt binding against the strike which can fool most people to thinking the door has not picked when in reality it has but it feels as if it hasn't because of the binding pressure.

Locks mounted on outdoors aren't going to be in the best shape either. They've had to contend with months and months (if not many years) of dirt, grime, and moisture hampering their operation. I nearly always give a lock im picking outdoors a quick shot of lubricant before I even start picking just to make sure everythings free moving.

These are just a few scenarios I can think of that I run into all the time for lockouts but be forewarned - it's an entirely different beast than just picking a lock in your hand. There are many more factors to account for but like I said and raimundo alluded to, there are a lot of us on here that can help you if need be.