Oversetting some pins, Help with Pick Modification

[Zeak187]

I have been picking for a couple weeks now and haven't really gotten any better, I do get them but takes much longer than normal (sometimes 30 minutes fora cheap padlock). I can feel the pins set but when i move to the rear binding pins it seems I always overset the 4 or 5 pin. I have tried angling the pick and all of the different ones I have. So my question is, I have read about modifications to commercial picks and I was wondering what is a good modification for a Kwikset keying lock? I have two Southord MXP-14 sets (I think thats the right number) one with steel handles and one with rubber slip-on type grips. So I should have all of the major styles. What could I do to make them work better, or would slimline picks help me out here?

[Squelchtone]

What could I do to make them work better

Practice.

Just because it's been a few weeks and you still can't open a particular lock doesn't mean there's something wrong with your picks. I have been picking since June 2005, and sometimes I still have problems picking some every day common non high security locks.

Keep trying, use less tension (if your finger is turning white around the tension wrench, don't press so hard), and buy some more locks. Protip: get something different than cheap-o made in china padlocks. An Arrow, Yale, Falcon, BEST, Schlage, etc mortise cylinder is always great to learn on, as you can remove some pins and add them back in when you master picking 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 pin stacks.

Squelchtone

[Zeak187]

I think I need to clarify, but there is no edit button. I have been picking heavily for 2 weeks, and I have atleast one model of everylock you just said. I even have some cutaway locks so I can see what I am doing wrong. The main question was what are good modifications to help with the issue I am having. I know practice helps but if it doesn't fit it doesn't fit.

[LocksmithArmy]

modifications are personal... its whatever you think needs to happen.
if you need a shorter hook make a shorter hook. if you need a thinner shaft make a thinner shaft. if it needs to be offser make it offset...

its up to you. how u pick is different than how others pick. so make your sets fit how you pick

[GottFoo]

I would think the short hook in that set could fit underneath all the pins without too much trouble. Are you always trying pivoting off one of the wards in the keyway? If you haven't tried, floating the pick in the keyway and setting the pins by just moving the pick up and down might help. Otherwise here are some picks some people prefer for tricky back pins (of course some don't).
half diamond hook http://www.lockpickshop.com/MSL-10.html
half ball hook http://www.lockpickshop.com/MSL-11.html
reach pick http://www.lockpickshop.com/PR-SS.html
Not sure of any mods but maybe those can give you some ideas.

Really shouldn't need anything too special for a kwikset though. Slimlines certainly can help manage the keyway but it seems like you might try modifying your technique some more first.

And feel free to ignore any and all of this. This tasty beer just might be getting on top of me.

[Squelchtone]

I hate to say it, but I'm going to say it. if you feel the need to modify a commercial pick set in order to pick a Kwikset lock, then you're doing it wrong. Something must be wrong in your method, and practicing with a bad method for 2 weeks is doing nothing more than reinforcing bad picking habits.

When you are done picking, do you notice that your tools are bent at all and you have to "fix" them by bending the wrenches or picks back to normal? This was my problem when I first started, I was very heavy handed, and went through a couple Southord sets, mangling and breaking nearly every pick.

90% of beginners do not realize that you cannot force the lock to open by hanging like an ape off the tension wrench.. just rest your finger on it as if you were only holding it in place so it didnt fall out of the lock. And don't just pick by going in to the lock picking the pins in order of 1 thru 5.

Lastly, it's ok to rake. Learning from the beginning to Single Pin Pick (SPP) is admirable, but until you can fully visualize exactly what you are doing and before you can learn all the sounds and minute differences in the resistance a pin gives you when it is set, false set, or over set, use a half diamond or snake rake and get some fun and enjoyment out of picking instead of being frustrated with it. On that note, when ever you are trying hard and are not able to open a lock, immediately stop, put the tools down and take a break. This isn't something will power or brute force can solve, its a matter of skill, experience, finesse, and often luck.

Squelchtone

ps. have you read the Locksport International Visual Guide to Lockpicking? look into it!

[zeke79]

I have to agree that if you need to modify a short hook pick for a kwikset then there is likely a problem with your technique. You should be able to pick a kwikset lock that has been keyed beyond MACS with a standard Southord hook. I have no problem with a standard peterson hook when picking a kwikset keyed 16161 or 61616 so picking one that is keyed from the factory should not be a problem.

We might be able to help you to spot a problem or problems in your picking technique if you posted a well lit video with a good view of the face of the lock and your hands while picking. We might be able to spot a problem with the video then again we might not spot anything. If you know someone in your area that also picks locks it will probably help a bunch to get together with them. Try checking to see if there is a locksport group near your area. If there is one within driving distance, even if it is a couple hundred miles away, it may be worth driving there a couple times.

Keep practicing as much as possible. If you get frustrated take a break and put the lock down for 15 minutes to half an hour then try again. I will say that practicing on the cheapest padlocks you can buy is not always the best thing to do. Some of these padlocks are of such poor quality that they can be very very difficult to pick open. While starting out stick with the master no.3's and kwiksets with easy key bittings. When buying them try to look in the package to get a good view of the key. You do not want a series of deep cuts next to shallow cuts, try to find the locks with key bittings that are close to the same depth of cut next to each other. When you master those locks then try buying some with deep cuts next to shallow cuts as these will be quite a bit more difficult to pick. Once you master those then pick up the master 140 series or the medium and large body brinks padlocks and a schlage deadbolt from lowes or another hardware store as these locks contain spool pins which again are a step up in difficulty. Once you master several of these then try picking the round brinks disk lock, the square body shrouded padlock (this lock has serratted spool pins on top and serratted bottom pins) and check out ebay for some 6 pin sargent mortise or rim cylinders (try to find LA keyway as they have an open keyway) and practice as much as you can. Once you master several of each of these locks then try moving up to best SFIC's, schlage everest, and try to locate some nice mortise or rim cylinders that have a tight keyway and have security pins. These can be a US cylinder or a Euro brand cylinder such as Winkhaus. The winkhaus vs5 and vs6 would fit into this category well and are very fun locks to pick as they are not impossible for a good picker to open but are difficult enough to give you a challenge and keep you entertained while picking it.

Good luck and hopefully we can help get things sorted out for you and get you picking most locks that you are likely to encounter on a steady basis.

Zeke79

[Zeak187]

I am not heavy handed and sometimes i think I can get too light handed. I have read a few things on the subject, a couple of books and this forum. I am definitely not forcing anything. Some of those picks you posted seem better suited to pick than the southord set, they have a better shape by the looks of it. I might try to make a couple of thosre and see if that helps me. And actually I am not so sure I have ever picked anything with a hook of any kind. I seem to prefer the half diamond, small or medium to do most things. I do pivot most of the time I have noticed. So i can try the floating method and see. Thanks for all the help though.

I might be able to put up some videos in the next couple days. Ill have to figure out how with my camera though.

[CptedIV]

Instead of buying different kwiksets or worrying about the key, its pretty easy on most of these to re-pin these yourself isn't it...? Thats what I've been doing, just swapping pins around in a couple kwiksets I own trying different combinations.. Good luck, I think I'm havin similar problems, can be frustrating but very rewarding.

Ed