Unseizing a lock for picking?

[i_want_to_pick]

Just started apprenticing at a locksmith 4 months ago, but have been picking locks, taking them apart, re pinning etc for over 6 years.

As a hobbyist if i came across a seized lock I could just take it apart, clean it, then pick it. But now i'm looking at it from a lockout standpoint where you need to open it quick and go on to the next job.

I looked through a bunch of posts and found some info in an old WD-40 thread, but not all the info I need... and after hours of reading i'm making a new post on it. lol

From what i've read, WD-40 or other penetrating oils work well to loosen a lock for picking. But then collects dust n dirt and dries out leaving some film behind, so it's not the best lube in a lot of environments.

Q 1: What is the best penetrating oil to use to loosen prior to picking?

Q 2: Once picked, can I just spray a lube into the lock after having used the penetrating oil? The idea being to at least keep it working better for a while, not just for a few weeks as the WD-40
dries or collects dirt making it worse.

Since on a lockout call you're there to gain entry, not take the lock apart(unless you need to drill it), and the customer just want's in, without any added charges like that. But if I can still make it work better with no added time or charge then it's worth it.

[nostromo]

Try using a light, plastic faced hammer on seized locks to vibrate loose any corrosion or dried dirt, then slowly open the lock while continuing the vibration. Then lubricate with graphite and working the mechanism. If it's still sticking to a level the customer does not like you can disassemble, clean and relubricate with light grease or graphite if need be.

If you have to use a penetrant, the lock is badly fouled enough that you are going to have to take it apart and clean it. You can try irrigating it with a light petrochemical while vibrating and working the mechanism to loosen it up, but the gunk has to get outside the mechanism or you are back to square one.

If you have to fit a key, whatever lubricant you use will make impressioning rather difficult, so make sure you have some other means of fitting a key.

Lastly, if you are in a lock shop working with others and THEIR practice does not include taking the time for all this, you should ask yourself why. Or the boss and see what the policy is.

[Scope]

I looked through a bunch of posts and found some info in an old WD-40 thread, but not all the info I need... and after hours of reading i'm making a new post on it. lol

From what i've read, WD-40 or other penetrating oils work well to loosen a lock for picking. But then collects dust n dirt and dries out leaving some film behind, so it's not the best lube in a lot of environments.

Q 1: What is the best penetrating oil to use to loosen prior to picking?

Q 2: Once picked, can I just spray a lube into the lock after having used the penetrating oil? The idea being to at least keep it working better for a while, not just for a few weeks as the WD-40
dries or collects dirt making it worse.

If you use WD-40, don't bother, use GT-85, it's way better. I have been using it for the last year since it was recommended by my local Army surplus shop for use with Airgun pellets, Rifle cleaning, works just as well with locks. Visit the official website for more information on it. Another thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1075

[i_want_to_pick]

Try using a light, plastic faced hammer on seized locks to vibrate loose any corrosion or dried dirt, then slowly open the lock while continuing the vibration. Then lubricate with graphite and working the mechanism. If it's still sticking to a level the customer does not like you can disassemble, clean and relubricate with light grease or graphite if need be.

If you have to use a penetrant, the lock is badly fouled enough that you are going to have to take it apart and clean it. You can try irrigating it with a light petrochemical while vibrating and working the mechanism to loosen it up, but the gunk has to get outside the mechanism or you are back to square one.

If you have to fit a key, whatever lubricant you use will make impressioning rather difficult, so make sure you have some other means of fitting a key.

Lastly, if you are in a lock shop working with others and THEIR practice does not include taking the time for all this, you should ask yourself why. Or the boss and see what the policy is.

I think you miss understood what i was asking. It was for a lockout scenario, where a customer just wants in. Not a lock servicing call.

The reason I thought of it was because I have friends calling me now that they know i'm working at a locksmith when they get locked out. Last Sunday it was my buddies house and the only working lock that i could pick( the rest were seized, and i didn't have lube on me), only picked in the wrong direction.

Then the next day after work I get a call from another friend locked out of their car. I don't have a vehicle entry kit yet, but to try and save them $50 on a lockout call I gave it a shot at picking it, just to find they had only used the remotes for the last 11 years and they were seized too. Finally got it open after I remembered paintball gun oil that i had in my trunk and dripped it on the pick, raked a few times drip, rake... until i could feel thinks moving and got it open... also picked in the wrong direction.

I have a Ry57 plug spinner on its way, so that helps with one problem, but the lube issue is the one i still want to.

As far as my shop, i'm being trained by 2 locksmiths with good experience, one of 25+years, and one of 30+ years. So i'm really happy to have the opportunity. But time is money, and on a seized lock they just drill. If you spend time messing around trying to pick a lock for too long you have to charge the customer extra which would've been the price of drilling and popping in a new lock anyway, but would've been done much quicker.

I'm just asking more for personal knowledge, for those instances where you really don't want to, or can't drill.

If you use WD-40, don't bother, use GT-85, it's way better.

Is this just a penetrant? or do you use it as the lube as well? Also not sure if and where I can get it in Canada, i'll have to look.

Thanks to both of you for your replies.

Matt

[i_want_to_pick]

Looking at the GT85 website n some reviews it seems like it's a WD-40 but with a higher % of lubricant in it. so it should last longer than WD-40. If I can find it i'd like to give it a try. But still wondering if it would be worth it to spray a little 100% lube in the lock after picking, that will keep it moving for longer?

[Engineer]

I think the WD-40 post might have changed a little since you visited it last? I know I posted on it as well.

It is a difficult question to answer, because the WD-40 (or similar) will free things up, but not for too long. Ideally use a similar spray with teflon in it. If you absolutely HAVE to lube a lock, then if you cannot dissassemble it afterwards, you really should spray so much proper lube in there, that you are flushing out the WD-40 with it. That in itself causes problems of oil staining down the paintwork of the door - WD-40 can actually attack paint, even change the colour, so you could end up paying your client for a new door, or painting it for them...

To be honest, it is probably best if you can talk them into letting you replace the lock if it's that bad. Sometimes that is not possible as they will think you are trying to "talk up" the cost, especially if they've been ripped-off at some time. You have to respect that and just do the best you can with the lock "dry". If you cannot pick it, then spray it with whatever you have and then take it off and flush it if you have the time with a quality lube. Oh, and take my bitter experience here - DON'T flush the lock with oil over a concrete path, or someones' lawn or flowers.... <oops!>.

If you don't have time for that, then you will probably have to leave it with WD-40 in and know that the lock will probably fail in a couple of years and you might either get a call-back, or more likely the owner will then go around bad-mouthing you to everyone, saying the lock was never the same after you worked on it and now it's broken altogether.

Sorry, just my feelings on a difficult situation.

[i_want_to_pick]

I think the WD-40 post might have changed a little since you visited it last? I know I posted on it as well.

Honestly I went through every page reading all the posts just before posting this topic, and by the last few, after over an hour of reading i was definitely skimming the posts... so i coulda missed a few.

you really should spray so much proper lube in there, that you are flushing out the WD-40 with it...
That in itself causes problems of oil staining down the paintwork of the door - WD-40 can actually attack paint, even change the colour, so you could end up paying your client for a new door, or painting it for them...
Oh, and take my bitter experience here - DON'T flush the lock with oil over a concrete path, or someones' lawn or flowers.... <oops!>.

Yea this is what I was kind of thinking, and wondering if the remaining WD-40(or whatever) would conflict with just adding some lube after, or if the flushing was needed with all combos of chemicals. I always carry a rag or two, which i hold under or around the lock any time i have to spray something in it, then wipe the excess. After that i put the key in, pull it out and wipe it, key in, out, wipe etc... about 10 or so times to get even more of the excess.

My thought's were also of a less common scenario, but one I've run into a few times already, where the customer/friend only uses one door and is happy with that. But that door I can't pick easy so if I can free up a lock from an un-used door then there's another chance to avoid drilling with another possible bonus of getting a second lock working for them at no extra charge (with the advice that it will only be a temporary fix). Then instead of bad mouthing, they're sending referrals your way hopefully. lol

Thanks for the reply

Matt

[Scope]

If you use WD-40, don't bother, use GT-85, it's way better.

Is this just a penetrant? or do you use it as the lube as well? Also not sure if and where I can get it in Canada, i'll have to look.

Thanks to both of you for your replies.

Matt

On the tin it says: "The lubricant, penetrator & water displacer with PTFE"
Also says "loosens rusted parts, prevents squeaking, penetrates and lubricates rusted and inaccessable parts" Contains PTFE, the PFTE forms a long lasting protective and lubricating film (has a pic of a lock and key)

Hope this helps you, this writing come direct from my tin i have.

Scope