Verify a thought on impressioning.

[WolfSpring]

Just a thought I have. I have a key depth card and I'm new to imprssioning. Right now I'm using the card each time I have a mark to go down a whole depth and ensuring that depth is reached by using the card so that I do not file to far or waiste my time. Is this a good method?

[Buggs41]

If key pins are worn via usage of the lock, you could file past the depth needed to get the pin to shear line.

Better off impressioning to open the lock. From there you could re-pin to new.

[Raymond]

Hank Spicer was once an extremely successful locksmith. He passed away many years ago. He taught many classes on impressioning, primarily automotive. He named his classes: "Filing For Dollars." One of the issues he regularly commented on was the tendency of locksmiths to file toooooo cautiously. Hank's method was that if you got a mark, go to the next full depth. If you needed depth keys, a code machine or just a micrometer, that was OK. He also warned to minimize the number of wiggle-jiggles of the impressioning blank as too much was not productive.

This strategy can be easily applied to automotive, padlocks, file cabinet locks or almost any standard type of wafer or pin tumbler where you can be reasonably sure that it is pinned with original length pins.

However, Buggs41 is correct in advising caution where a lock shows a lot of wear. The pins can be shorter than per specification due to wear. In practice we often make a duplicate key work like new by raising the cuts by ten thousandths of an inch if the owner cannot be persuaded to rekey.

Also, even if a lock is pinned to factory spec. keys, the pins used may be different to compensate for different lock brands.

The heavier the mark is, the closer you are to the correct depth.

[raimundo]

If im following the discussion correctly, you are probably impressioning american padlocks, and your key depth guage must be for american locks. these things come with specific locks for each depth guage (go' no-go device) so if you have the right tool it should work, I doubt that any of the locks are really so well worn as to change the bitting much

Raymonds mention of too much jiggling is worth also being aware of.
If someone impressions a rim cylinder it can and often will loosen the mounting of the lock.

So for the paranoids reading this, if your lock was on the door tightly when you left the house, and it appears to be loose when you return, someone may have been impressioning your lock. look for brass filings inside the keyway and near any likely surface nearby that could have been used to steady the blank while filing.

This actually happened to me, once, I had a landlord who was coming unannounced into my apartment and even once stole something, I changed the bitting and for a while kept him out, but one day I did find my rimlock loose and saw the evidence of impressioning.

[raimundo]

one more thing, "the heavier the mark is the closer you are to correct depth" from Raymonds post is more of less true.

when you get really heavy impressions, it means that you are nearly done with the whole bitting across the entire key,
the first pins to bind got lowered to the correct depths and as you get to the last one or two pins they start to bind heavily because there are no other pins to share the pressure with after they have reached the shear line.

Certain locks are more difficult to impression, the Best line has no shoulder, and is tip indexed so that bumping will pivot from this tip as you bind and bump, and the blanks are usually nickel silver, a more difficult metal to impression in as the marks are smaller in the harder metal. So if you have brass blanks for them, reserve them exclusively for impresioning.

[mh]

Also, at least in theory, some pins interface with the key not at their very tip, but their cone part sits on the key's slopes.
Such pins are cheaper, as the tips do not need to be made very precisely.
But that would mean that if you do not file exact angular cuts, the correct depth is different.

Cheers
mh

[WolfSpring]

Wow, you guys have given me a lot of insight. Yes it is american locks, I am using a depth card that sais master on it, I understand they use the same depths though, it has multiple types on it. Right now I am at a pause ex until I can get a vice. I impressioned 4 out of five pins and just overfiled the fifth pin and tore my hand up holding the lock. Will be a week or two till I can get a vice, especially this close to christmas the mail takes forever. I am really starting to understand by what you said now why marks were apearing where the were and then moving across the key as I filed. I really do need to get a better file too, but that is all in another post that you all have been very helpful with. It feels good to grow from a noobie picking his first Master el cheapo or Kwikset deadbolt to moving on to impressioning and as soon as DealExtreme sends me my pick, tubular picking. I think I'm well on my way to becomeing a hobbiest locksmith and with this boards continuing mentorship and guidance maybe I can do this stuff after I retire from the military.

Thanks Again.

[raimundo]

some will start marking from a centertip and then if as said, its an off center hole, or whatever, the marks can move to the slope, but if you see this happening, you must also make sure that you are keeping the shoulder in contact with the plug as you bump it,
this contact with the plug will make a shiny mark that is deeper and larger around than the contact point made by normal use, so for datagram, its an indication that the lock may have been impressioned, especially if the lock appears to be more loosely mounted than previously remembered.