Emergency help: mortise lock right vs left?

[gagaliya]

Hi guys, my tenant completely destroyed the lock trying to replace it himself, so now the door has no lock.

I found a similar looking replacement mortise lock on amazon but it's asking for options right handed vs left handed. Can someone please tell me what the difference is and how can I tell if mine is right or left handed so I dont ended up ordering the wrong one. This is the type of lock i need: http://www.amazon.com/Baldwin-6321-150- ... 28&sr=8-16

Also i was surprised at how expensive it is, more than $200!! is there anything cheaper that will also fit. I went to home depot, they had the smaller mortise lock for only $20 but it's too small to fit.

thank you very much!

[ww85]

What kind of property do you manage where the apartments have locks like this?

In any case, this should help.

[gagaliya]

Hi, it's just a regular high rise condo building. All the apartments have the same type of mortise lock in the amazon link. My tenant was trying to change the cylinder i think but managed to jam the screwdriver into the mortise lock and break the whole thing (and the screw driver) sigh.

For the picture for single door, does it assume outside is north (top of the picture). While standing outside the apartment facing the door, it opens into the apartment with the door knob on the right side and hinge on the left side. So i think i have a left handed mortise lock?

thanks again!

[Squelchtone]

This will be a good time to have that security deposit conversation with the tenant. how he didnt realize there is a little set screw that holds the cylinder in place is beyond me, but some people just shouldnt do DIY projects.

As you're finding out, real door hardware doesn't cost $20 like a Defiant or Kwikset deadbolt. Granted Home Depot sells Baldwin as well, and Baldwin is just on the verge of being real/good door hardware so the prices are higher than most people are used to.

I'd honestly recommend a locksmith call in the morning versus tackling this yourself, but dont call the first number in the phone book, you'll just get some shlub in his car who charges $300 per lockout. Call a real mortal and brick locksmith shop in town and have them come out to take a look, even explaining over the phone wont cut it, this is just something they're going to want to see before they start any work. It will also help them figure out what size case and backset to order for you.

If you decide to do it on the cheap, ebay can be a good place to find parts, but you have to know what you're buying, so try to get a model number off that lock case,or take some careful measurements, and then check here: Baldwin mortise locksets on ebay

I'm also going out on a limb here.. Did your tenant destroy the mortise CYLINDER that screws into the mortise lock BODY or did he somehow destroy the entire lockset that slides into the rectangular cutout in the wooden door? In many cases all you have to do is replace the Baldwin mortise cylinder, not the entire lock that is mounted in the door with handles and knobs and all that jazz. Here's a great price on just the cylinder Baldwin mortise cylinder with keys
I'm also going to ask a blunt question.... Are you really the landlord or are you the tenant posing as a landlord? If you are the tenant, be honest with the landlord, maybe you locked yourself out and thought you could torque the cylinder out of the door using a screwdriver and now its all messed up? Things happen, that's why we have deposits. But if you want our help, all we ask is that you are 100% honest. If you can, a photo of the "messed up" lock would help a lot, this way we can tell you what part to buy and what part not to buy. The reason I ask this is that if you as a landlord have mortised locksets in stead of the typical Defiant, Kwikset, home depot quality Schlage, thenyou probably have a maintenance person on staff for this or a contract with a local locksmith, so this just isn't adding up for me, sorry.

Good luck with your project,
Squelchtone

[Evan]

I'm also going to ask a blunt question.... Are you really the landlord or are you the tenant posing as a landlord? If you are the tenant, be honest with the landlord, maybe you locked yourself out and thought you could torque the cylinder out of the door using a screwdriver and now its all messed up? Things happen, that's why we have deposits. But if you want our help, all we ask is that you are 100% honest. If you can, a photo of the "messed up" lock would help a lot, this way we can tell you what part to buy and what part not to buy. The reason I ask this is that if you as a landlord have mortised locksets in stead of the typical Defiant, Kwikset, home depot quality Schlage, thenyou probably have a maintenance person on staff for this or a contract with a local locksmith, so this just isn't adding up for me, sorry.

@squelchtone:

Condos are weird places where the normal rules and laws of the universe are suspended and things like "unit owner" and "condo board" and "common element" and "unit boundaries" have serious legal meanings and repercussions... Common elements are repaired and maintained through "condo fees" which pay for labor and materials to fix the common furnishings and services for the whole condo building...

Any issue *inside* the boundaries of a unit is the "unit owner's" problem, not the condo board/association nor their agents (unless it pertains to a "common element" like a water or utility pipe which feeds more than one unit failing and causing damage)... The door is the unit owner's responsibility entirely... And the condo association is only responsible to repair any damage to the extent that the sheetrock walls and plywood subfloors are repaired sans any improvements... It is like a commercial landlord is only responsible to provide an intact fire compartment with a concrete floor and properly firestopped sheetrock demising walls between tenant spaces... The "unit owner" is responsible to provide home owner's insurance to cover any "improvements" made within the unit...

So it is quite possible that the OP is in fact the "unit owner" and therefore a landlord of the "tenant" he or she is renting their unit out to... Quite often they are shocked at what repairs will cost when they are told that it is not a common element and they have to deal with it themselves... Agreed, this triggers my spidey senses too, but this situation might be due to the weirdness of the condo-universe which is entirely unlike an apartment complex where one landlord is solely responsible for all on-site repairs and maintenance...

~~ Evan

[Evan]

Hi, it's just a regular high rise condo building. All the apartments have the same type of mortise lock in the amazon link. My tenant was trying to change the cylinder i think but managed to jam the screwdriver into the mortise lock and break the whole thing (and the screw driver) sigh.

For the picture for single door, does it assume outside is north (top of the picture). While standing outside the apartment facing the door, it opens into the apartment with the door knob on the right side and hinge on the left side. So i think i have a left handed mortise lock?

@gagaliya: (OP)

This is beyond your skill level to repair, the door has a fire rating and is located in a high rise condo building so life safety codes apply and you need to have a properly rated lock installed... There are probably also issues with the locks being changed that need to be addressed with the condo board and fire department to ensure they will have continued access to your unit for emergencies and fire alarm events... Is your unit on a master key for that emergency access or have you had to provide a copy of your own individual key to the board and fire department? Either way, you or your tenant had no business even attempting to change the lock without contacting the association to see what the procedure is as far as who needs emergency access to your unit as YOU the owner would be responsible for the fines/violations or replacement of the door if it was destructively entered... You are lucky that your tenant messed up the lock trying to change it before someone legitimately attempted to enter your unit on official business only to find they no longer had access and called a locksmith at your expense to gain entry... Or worse, one of your appliances or plumbing fixtures failed and leaked and because your door was locked and no key was available, again either a locksmith was called at your expense to gain entry or a game of phone tag was engaged in while water was still leaking and causing further damage to other owners units and common elements which you will be responsible for repairing...

You should at the very least ensure that your contact information as well as your tenant's contact information is up to date with the condo association/board for emergency contact purposes...

You need to review your condo association's homeowner's rules and the legal condo declaration documents have to say about your specific responsibilities...

It sounds like you have a lot to learn very quickly before something bites you in the butt... Remember that at ALL TIMES you are responsible for the actions of your tenant and ensuring that your tenant as well as yourself completely follows all of the rules established and set forth in the condo declaration and the regulations set forth by the condo board... YOU not the tenant will be fined for any damages caused as you are the condo owner of record... Better to be extra safe and call someone and ASK than be really sorry and either front thousands of dollars to repair damages caused by your oversight/negligence or have a dispute over it that ends up in court...

~~ Evan

[Klaiviel]

I have an extra Baldwin 6375.150.R Right Hand mortise hardware set. I was going to sell it for like $250 on ebay but if its going to help you out and you can use it I would sell it to you for like $50.

[Squelchtone]

@Evan before you take the ball and run with it too far, lets make sure this is a condo vs an apartment. The poster said it its a condo style building with apartments.. it may very well just be apartments in which case a tenant doesn't own the door or the apartment. If she did mean that it is a condo in the sense that someone paid $300,000 and owns this condo, then yeah, your post should help her in the right direction.

Just so we don't get lost or hung up on word definitions: To me an apartment is something you pay $500-$2000 a month for and when the lease is up you get to either renew the lease and stay another year or you move to another apartment for whatever reason, bad neighbors, new job, family addition, buying a house, or buying a condo. While at the apartment, if something is broken, you usually call a landlord and have them fix the sink, an electrical outlet, a door, a lock, or a leaky roof.

I like your use of spidey sense, I'm stealing that phrase for next time =)
Squelchtone

[Evan]

I like your use of spidey sense, I'm stealing that phrase for next time =)

You have no idea how many hours of pondering I went through while reading many of these "red alert" topics to find something which described the "feeling" of being suspicious of the story being presented which was amusing without being too insulting...

As to apartment vs. condo it is complicated... In general in the Massachusetts area you have the right idea as far as how the words are used... In other places like NYC, LA and Miami, etc. apartments can be owned by the occupants in co-op buildings...

Condos can become apartments when they are not owner occupied... However the logic that applies to normal apartments that are run as commercial real estate properties by professional property management firms sadly does not usually attach to a rented condo... Often times hilarity ensues as something happens and all parties involved in the condo situation try to play "hot potato" when it comes to paying to repair something... Add in unit owners who don't know their legal responsibilities as landlords when renting their units to tenants AND the hi-jinks that can occur when similar people who live in their units try to run the condo board with little to no experience without a professional property management firm either contracted to deal with the day to day operations of the condo property or on retainer to give advice when an unusual situation arises and you can see where the odd nature of the OP's post can be explained as well as their mixture of the condo/apartment terminology...

~~ Evan

[gagaliya]

Holy batman! Guys while i appreciate all the info, the only question I had was how to tell if my lock is right vs left handed. Anyway I got the answer - depends on where the hinge is while you face the door standing outside. (on left = left handed)

I am the owner, but not for the whole building (it has 300+ units), just a few units in the building. Yes i can take the cost out of the security deposit but the tenant has been good that pays rent on time etc, just a bit clueless, so I am trying to just repair it for him free of charge.

Anyway I got this lock from ebay, seems a great deal compared to the $200 baldwin, and I have the cylinder already. Went to the falcon lock website and compared the measurement vs the broken mortise lock, and they match exactly.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Falcon-Mortise-Entr ... 5adac24efa

It doesnt seem that difficult to install since the space is already in the door, i just need to slide in this new mortise lock and screw everything back on.

Hopefully it works otherwise will get a locksmith. I really dont have good experience with the locksmith in my area, that's why want to do it myself.

Anyway thanks for all the help, hopefully I can get this done myself.

[Evan]

Holy batman! Guys while i appreciate all the info, the only question I had was how to tell if my lock is right vs left handed. Anyway I got the answer - depends on where the hinge is while you face the door standing outside. (on left = left handed)

I am the owner, but not for the whole building (it has 300+ units), just a few units in the building. Yes i can take the cost out of the security deposit but the tenant has been good that pays rent on time etc, just a bit clueless, so I am trying to just repair it for him free of charge.

Anyway I got this lock from ebay, seems a great deal compared to the $200 baldwin, and I have the cylinder already. Went to the falcon lock website and compared the measurement vs the broken mortise lock, and they match exactly.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Falcon-Mortise-Entr ... 5adac24efa

It doesnt seem that difficult to install since the space is already in the door, i just need to slide in this new mortise lock and screw everything back on.

Hopefully it works otherwise will get a locksmith. I really dont have good experience with the locksmith in my area, that's why want to do it myself.

Anyway thanks for all the help, hopefully I can get this done myself.

If you are not *POSITIVE* you can repair this lock yourself, DO NOT even attempt to mess with it and immediately hire a qualified locksmith... This is a fire rated door and with life safety issues in play it is not something for unqualified people to mess with...

I wonder why you don't have "good experience" with your local locksmith... If it is just a mere personality clash sort of thing then google search for locksmiths that are farther away and pay the extra trip charges if you can not see yourself tolerating having the local locksmith effect this repair...

LOL... Mortise locks don't "look" difficult to install but trust me, they are more difficult than a standard residential lock set which has two screws which may or may not be covered by a trim ring...

Good luck... I hope that your eBay purchase works out for you -- but you would have been better off hiring a locksmith and getting a warranty on the repair job for some period of time...

~~ Evan