Transporting lock picks in car, illegal?

[Gom Jabbar]

Hi, I tried a couple searches but couldn't find anything about this. Sorry if this has been asked before.

I am moving in a few days and I have a lot of lock picks, bump keys, and other items of a similar nature, that I am rather worried about transporting. I know the probability of being pulled over and searched is slim but I have priors and I can't afford some nosy cop poking around and giving me a "possession of burglary tools" charge just because he's bored.

It's my understanding that for possession of burglary tools one must generally
A) Possess the tools
B) Intend to use said tools in a criminal manner

While I have no criminal intent, to the average police officer, simply having these things in my car is evidence I'm "up to no good." Also I know in some states it is considered prima facie evidence of intent to have the tools on one's person. What I am wondering is does this extend to having the tools in one's vehicle? I've tried googling to find the answer to this question and have had no luck.

I've thought about putting the picks, etc., in a box and having movers pack them into their truck, but this makes me nervous also because they could lose them and open them later and then notify the police out of their sense of civic virtue, or just go digging around in my stuff to look for valuables they can steal. Movers are sketchy, so I'm inclined to keep this stuff in my car.

What do you guys think I should do? What is the safest way to transport "burglar tools"? In some cases mailing might be safer, but I have some stuff that is pretty large, it's not just picks, and I suspect mailing these things interstate is probably illegal anyway. Also I realize if a cop stops me he needs probable cause to perform a search, which he's not going to have, but often that doesn't stop them. If they decide you are sneaky looking or they are just bored they have ways of legitimizing a search, such as calling drug dogs and causing them to "alert" which automatically gives probable cause (regardless of actual presence of drugs), or just flat out lying on the police report and saying consent to the search was given when it isn't (this has actually happened to me before, so I have no expectation of cops playing by the rules).

I'm in Oregon by the way, but I'm curious about the car issue in general, whether there are any states where vehicular transport of burglary tools is considered prima facie intent.

[Squelchtone]

Put them in a sealed box in the trunk of your car and mark the box locksmith parts and tools and do your move in the day time not at 3am while driving drunk and you probably wont get pulled over. If the tools are sealed in a box a cop cant say you were ready to commit a crime, because it would take some effort to go into a taped up box in a trunk, versus having your pick set in the glove box or center console ready for quick use.

If you have them in your pocket along with a ski mask and big screwdriver and a portable police scanner on the front seat then yeah, the police who pull you over for speeding or whatever will totally have a field day with all those items being in the same place at the same time.

You also seem very paranoid that you will be pulled over... make sure your car has valid tags, inspection sticker, registration, all lights work, and if your looks make people think you're up to no good, get a haircut and wear a button down shirt or a polo shirt and khakis. I see this trend recently where the white rich kids drive around in their hoodies on with the hoods on their head even in warm weather.. that just seems like they're hiding something but I know they're just initiating their favorite rap stars.

smoke less pot, cut the dreadlocks off, and get that bondo covered car with broken tail light fixed up and they'll stop pulling you over. (just kidding bro, I dont know if you do any of those things)

good luck, let us know how it goes.
Squelchtone

[smhatter]

I did some looking, and it doesn't appear that Oregon has prima facie laws per se. It is under intent as you said. However, and this is kind of big, there have been court cases that have essentially allowed police to pull you over in an area where there was a recent burglary if they "have reason to believe" you could be involved. (State v. Canape, 46 Or App 453, 611 P2d 1190 (1980))

Given those circumstances, if your priors are of that type of thing, and they find it, that could land you in hot water.

[raimundo]

law is strange and surreal stuff, it can mean whatever a prosecutor wants to allege it means, currently there is a secret interpretation of the patriot law that the government refuses to share with the governed, in a typical totalitarian move.

You start your post with an underlying assumption that just owning picks is a crime, that is an attitude that has been sold to you by repressive totalitarian influences,

The police also receive their interpretation of what the law should be or might be from that same source. they have no law degrees and disparage those who do have them, and they think the bill of rights is only for criminals, so they use it heavily when they are caught on video committing crimes.

[datagram]

Oregon is an intent state:

164.235 Possession of a burglary tool or theft device. (1) A person commits the crime of possession of a burglary tool or theft device if the person possesses a burglary tool or theft device and the person:

(a) Intends to use the tool or device to commit or facilitate a forcible entry into premises or a theft by a physical taking; or

(b) Knows that another person intends to use the tool or device to commit or facilitate a forcible entry into premises or a theft by a physical taking.

(2) For purposes of this section, “burglary tool or theft device” means an acetylene torch, electric arc, burning bar, thermal lance, oxygen lance or other similar device capable of burning through steel, concrete or other solid material, or nitroglycerine, dynamite, gunpowder or any other explosive, tool, instrument or other article adapted or designed for committing or facilitating a forcible entry into premises or theft by a physical taking.

(3) Possession of a burglary tool or theft device is a Class A misdemeanor. [1971 c.743 §138; 1999 c.1040 §13; 2003 c.577 §9]

Keeping picks in your car should not be a problem unless you put yourself in a situation where you would appear to have intent to commit a crime. I would not label them as "locksmith" tools because Oregon requires certification to represent yourself as a locksmith (see below).

For more information see:
http://www.lockwiki.com/index.php/Legal_Issues

http://law.justia.com/codes/oregon/2007/vol4/164.html
http://www.oregon.gov/CCB/locksmith.shtml

Hope this helps,
datagram

[Gom Jabbar]

law is strange and surreal stuff, it can mean whatever a prosecutor wants to allege it means, currently there is a secret interpretation of the patriot law that the government refuses to share with the governed, in a typical totalitarian move.

You start your post with an underlying assumption that just owning picks is a crime, that is an attitude that has been sold to you by repressive totalitarian influences,

The police also receive their interpretation of what the law should be or might be from that same source. they have no law degrees and disparage those who do have them, and they think the bill of rights is only for criminals, so they use it heavily when they are caught on video committing crimes.

Well I certainly believe people should have the right to have whatever tools they want, regardless of their suitability for crime, and although many people on this forum may think this is common sense, it is actually a relatively extreme view. I believe the purpose of the intent requirement is not to condone the possession of burglary tools, but rather, to protect people from prosecution when there is no evidence the tools are not being used legitimately. Many tools like screwdrivers, pry bars, drills, etc., are considered burglary tools but clearly have legitimate uses. This is not the case with tools like lock picks, or halligans, or thermic lances. Unless you're a locksmith/firefighter/safe technician, there is no legitimate use for these, and possession of this class of tools is far more suspicious than something like screwdrivers or pry bars.

While those of us on this forum may view locksporting to be a legitimate use of picks, this is not an opinion generally shared by cops, or prosecutors. The nature of some tools is such that their possession could be construed as prima facie evidence of criminal intent, at least in some states. This is compounded when that possession occurs in a vehicle, or on one's person.

Anyway, thanks for the responses...I decided to put my stuff in the bottom of a box, with clothes over it, and the box taped tightly shut. I do think in my case I am much more likely to be searched than the average person, as a cop looking up my license plate would see (I think anyway) that I have had several charges of drug possession. While this is certainly not sufficient for probable cause, I have learned that you can't really expect cops to play by the rules. They think the 4th amendment is just a roadblock to them doing their jobs and nothing would make them happier than for it to be repealed. They're certainly not above searching without your consent, and then saying you consented on the police report and in court, particularly if they view you as a deviant or criminal. I may be paranoid, but I don't think it's without cause.