Bump key help

[GreedyRogue]

I know that bump keys are considered crude by most people. Trust me I do plan on getting some bogota picks made, but in the meantime I already have a bump key set.

I have 2 questions really. The first is simpler. Is there any reason not to use a Titan KW10 in a regular Kwikset lock? I understand the difference in the number of pins, but wouldn't this eliminate the need to carry the KW1?

The second issue I am having is bumping door locks. I have an M1 key set up and I can bump the single masterlock I have 7-8/10 tries. but on the doorknobs I have it's more like 1/10-15 tries. I understand how bumping works, and I have 3 different locks to practice on. All 3 have the same failure rate.

Am I using the wrong key? I have 3 keys that actually fit the lock, KW10 KW1 and DE6. How am I supposed to know what key to use? Or going with my first question, can I sub the KW10 for both the KW1 and the DE6?

[Squelchtone]

I know that bump keys are considered crude by most people. Trust me I do plan on getting some bogota picks made, but in the meantime I already have a bump key set.

I have 2 questions really. The first is simpler. Is there any reason not to use a Titan KW10 in a regular Kwikset lock? I understand the difference in the number of pins, but wouldn't this eliminate the need to carry the KW1?

The second issue I am having is bumping door locks. I have an M1 key set up and I can bump the single masterlock I have 7-8/10 tries. but on the doorknobs I have it's more like 1/10-15 tries. I understand how bumping works, and I have 3 different locks to practice on. All 3 have the same failure rate.

Am I using the wrong key? I have 3 keys that actually fit the lock, KW10 KW1 and DE6. How am I supposed to know what key to use? Or going with my first question, can I sub the KW10 for both the KW1 and the DE6?

Look at the key that you actually use on those doors and see if it is 5 pin or 6 pin. If you don't have the key, then I'm gonna assume they're not your doors if you know what I'm saying. Bump keys aren't magical master keys to every door.. It has more to do with your timing and method and experience, it all takes practice.

Squelchtone

[GreedyRogue]

Bad assumption there squelchtone, I do not advocate anything illegal and these locks are legally mine. I bought them at the local DI, but non of them had keys.

What do you expect, 3 locks for $5 lol.

I tried visually counting pins but can't see well enough. Once I get my picks made I guess I can count them easier. Is it that much of a difference between a masterlock and a door knob though?

[Squelchtone]

Bad assumption there squelchtone, I do not advocate anything illegal and these locks are legally mine. I bought them at the local DI, but non of them had keys.

What do you expect, 3 locks for $5 lol.

I tried visually counting pins but can't see well enough. Once I get my picks made I guess I can count them easier. Is it that much of a difference between a masterlock and a door knob though?

With a name like GreedyRogue, I hope you'll forgive my assumption good sir.

Cheers,
Squelchtone

[GreedyRogue]

No problem. I have used this nickname since high school.

It's kinda nice because almost no one else uses it, so I can keep the same name across the internet.

[MBI]

I bought them at the local DI, but non of them had keys.

Utah?

Is it that much of a difference between a masterlock and a door knob though?

Some locks are much easier to bump than others. Some types of locks can often be easier or harder, categorically. Sometimes you can have to locks that otherwise appear identical and one might be cake to bump or pick, the other can be a real pain in the butt to open. Locks can have their own personalities.

[GreedyRogue]

Idaho actually.

I am just surprised how different the padlock is compared to the door lock. Of the 3 I have, I have only managed to bump 1. I want to get another masterlock and see if it is still as easy as the first or if I have just learned the one I have too well.

[Evan]

Idaho actually.

I am just surprised how different the padlock is compared to the door lock. Of the 3 I have, I have only managed to bump 1. I want to get another masterlock and see if it is still as easy as the first or if I have just learned the one I have too well.

@GreedyRogue:

The padlock was keyed at the factory by factory technicians who obey specs...

Therefore a properly cut bump key using Master bitting specs will work on it...

The door locks of unknown ancestry and pinning aren't working with standard KW1/KW10 bump keys...

This means that the locks in question are not pinned to standard 1 through 6 Kwikset bitting depths...

Some pictures of the locks in question would allow the more experienced members here to offer more in the way of information as to why the locks you have can not be bumped but for 10% of your attempts...

~~ Evan

[GreedyRogue]

Sorry for the low quality pictures. All I have is a smartphone for a camera

front view, also showing the key used to bump
http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/greedyrogue/?action=view&current=IMG_20110826_120756.jpg

top view
http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/greedyrogue/?action=view&current=IMG_20110826_120803.jpg

Individual fronts close ups the first link is the only one I have successfully bumped.
http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/greedyrogue/?action=view&current=IMG_20110826_120819.jpg
http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/greedyrogue/?action=view&current=IMG_20110826_120826.jpg
http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/greedyrogue/?action=view&current=IMG_20110826_120841.jpg

[Evan]

Sorry for the low quality pictures. All I have is a smartphone for a camera

front view, also showing the key used to bump
http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/greedyrogue/?action=view&current=IMG_20110826_120756.jpg

top view
http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/greedyrogue/?action=view&current=IMG_20110826_120803.jpg

Individual fronts close ups the first link is the only one I have successfully bumped.
http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/greedyrogue/?action=view&current=IMG_20110826_120819.jpg
http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/greedyrogue/?action=view&current=IMG_20110826_120826.jpg
http://s1092.photobucket.com/albums/i403/greedyrogue/?action=view&current=IMG_20110826_120841.jpg

@GreedyRogue:

The spherical knob is the only one of the three that is not an OEM Kwikset...

What does this mean and why does that have anything to do with the fact that it is the only one you have been able to bump so far:

-- non-Kwikset OEM locks (clones) rarely if ever use OEM Kwikset pins (which are flat and blunt ended and look more like normal top pins rather than having a pointed end like most bottom pins)

-- your bump key is probably not filed correctly, it needs to have large enough flats (seats) spaced properly for it to work on locks pinned with OEM Kwikset pins (a better picture of the key will determine this)

Hope that helps a bit...

~~ Evan

[GreedyRogue]

Good to know it's not just me but the locks as well. I guess more research into locks themselves is required.

As far as the bump key not being filed correctly, it is a copy of a machine cut key that I bought of ebay years ago when they still allowed bump keys.

I took the master set down and had the key copied, then filed down the tip and shoulder as usual. Seeing as how I bent the key though, maybe it's time for a new copy.


Still curious is there is any reason not to use a kw10 rather than the kw1.