Determing the age locks

[chaos4zap]

I recently decided that I am going to start collecting older locks, or at least picking them up when I come across them. Does anyone know of any sources for determing the age of locks? As an example, I picked up a few of the old master padlocks that have the raised lion emblem on them. They are pin/tumber, small and the best I have found puts them maybe in the 60's, but I have no way to confirm this. Any advice you guy's might be able to provide would be greatly appreciated.

[MacGyver101]

The age depends on which model padlock you have. I'm not an expert on the older Master Lock designs, but the No. 77 was a model that Master Lock produced sometime in the 1950's/60's with an embossed "lion" design. They later resurrected a version of that same design for some limited-run commemorative locks in 1996, for their 75th anniversary.

Most of my info on old locks comes from hours of scouring the patent database, as well as research on a number of other sites that are dedicated just to collecting old locks. In this case, if you're interested in old padlocks, antique-padlocks.com would be a great resource to get you started.

[chaos4zap]

Well, mine is deffinately stamped "77" Were the comemerative locks marked as such? any way to know which is which? I had a key made from the code stamped on the front, and since it has this stamp....I have to think it would be of the older variety. Now-day's, I can't see them doing that, even for a comemorative series. I don't suspect you have the answers to these questions and I'm fairly sure there are probably not many simple methods for diffinitevely determining the age of locks. I also got an older, lever style pad that was used by the Missouri Pacific Railroad (it is stamped as such) and, fortunately, the year of 1964 is stamped in the back of it. I'm not really sure if that was the year it was manufactured, or a stamp made by the railroad later on...but at least it's something. On the key-hole protector that swings to the left to reveal the key-hole, it is stamped with an emblem that is a diamond with an S in it with a kind of arrow going through it and it says "LANC. PA.". Clearly made in Lancaster Pennsylvania, but I had no luck finding what manufacturer is represented by the emblem. Again, my guess is that the answer is that "there is no easy answer when aging and identifying locks", but I thought maybe someone may be familiar with this stamp?

[MacGyver101]

Well, mine is deffinately stamped "77" Were the comemerative locks marked as such?

It sounds like you have an original No. 77, then. To the best of my knowledge, the commemorative ones were all stamped "75th anniversary".

I also got an older, lever style pad that was used by the Missouri Pacific Railroad (it is stamped as such) and, fortunately, the year of 1964 is stamped in the back of it. I'm not really sure if that was the year it was manufactured, or a stamp made by the railroad later on...but at least it's something. On the key-hole protector that swings to the left to reveal the key-hole, it is stamped with an emblem that is a diamond with an S in it with a kind of arrow going through it and it says "LANC. PA.". Clearly made in Lancaster Pennsylvania, but I had no luck finding what manufacturer is represented by the emblem.

Lancaster, PA was the home of Slaymaker, who were a prolific producer of railroad padlocks: they were founded in 1888 and closed in 1986, just two years' shy of their 100th anniversary. Their locks, for a number of years, bore variations of a logo that was a calligraphy "S" with an arrow flying through it horizontally from right to left: I'm pretty certain that's what you're describing.

While they did produce other padlocks, most of their production up until late in the company's life was for railway use; their founder was Samuel R. Slaymaker, and his father had been a well-known railway surveyor in the mid-1800's, which probably led to that focus. Their most notable departures from railway locks were special production runs of dufflebag locks for the US Army in WWI, and "spare tire" locks for cars in the 1920's.

If you do a Google Image search for "Slaymaker Locks" you can probably quickly find something that's close to the one you have. (Or, post a picture and I'll see what I can do to help narrow the age down a bit.)

[raimundo]

I remember the master lion locks, they were definatly sold in the 60's.

Many old lockshops once had code books that could generate a cut list for the key from some code stamped on the lock,

for a collector of old locks, the code books could also make you a got to guy in the OLD LOCK community. as could any of the blanks that fit them

I reccommend that everyone interested in this thread pay attention to old locksmith shops that will close and sell off everything. Most of the big commercial shops threw out those books a long time ago, but somewhere someone has them in the back of a filing cabinet or somewhere. there are a lot of code books just as there are a lot of manufacturers,

Have the old codes been collected on any modern media like DVD or whatever?
what would the likely copyright issues be on such old books, where the publisher is probably long gone. remember all that was once copyrighted becomes publicly available to reproduce eventually.

[keysman]

.......Have the old codes been collected on any modern media like DVD or whatever?
what would the likely copyright issues be on such old books, .....

The old codes have been saved. They are available on most commercial code programs like instacode ect.

But you are correct... an original copy of the codes might be a collectors item.

[cledry]

I remember the master lion locks, they were definatly sold in the 60's.

Many old lockshops once had code books that could generate a cut list for the key from some code stamped on the lock,

for a collector of old locks, the code books could also make you a got to guy in the OLD LOCK community. as could any of the blanks that fit them

I reccommend that everyone interested in this thread pay attention to old locksmith shops that will close and sell off everything. Most of the big commercial shops threw out those books a long time ago, but somewhere someone has them in the back of a filing cabinet or somewhere. there are a lot of code books just as there are a lot of manufacturers,

Have the old codes been collected on any modern media like DVD or whatever?
what would the likely copyright issues be on such old books, where the publisher is probably long gone. remember all that was once copyrighted becomes publicly available to reproduce eventually.

In The US as in Europe the copyright remains for 70 years after the death of the author or compiler. So at a minimum the book would need to be 70 years old, but likely more. I publish books on CD and as such I have researched this thoroughly.

I still have the complete Reed Codes on microfiche! Still have the old HPC and Dominion code books and a load of code books and key clippers from Curtis. Never use any of them these days.

[MacGyver101]

what would the likely copyright issues be on such old books, where the publisher is probably long gone. remember all that was once copyrighted becomes publicly available to reproduce eventually.

The short answer is: it's complicated.

Depending on when the book was published, whether it had an explicit copyright notice, whether the copyright was renewed (etc., etc.), a code book published in 1950 might have already entered public domain under U.S. law (in either 1978 or 1997)... or may not enter public domain until 2045. Cornell has an excellent summary of Copyright term -- and most countries are unfortunately falling in line with the US copyright limits (which are rapidly approaching 100 years after the original publication date), so it's not a bad rule of thumb for the rest of us either.

I own a number of old books on locks that I've carefully scanned and run through character-recognition, in order to preserve them (including some code books, some old safe books, and a great reference on early American lock makers)... and I would love to share them here, but I've checked, and most of them had their copyrights renewed and extended to the full 95 years from publication. I'll be sure to leave my kids a note to log in here sometime in early 2055, and create a thread with some nice books from the 1950's.

[chaos4zap]

The local locksmith had no problem cutting a key for me from the code on the front of the master pad. As far as I could tell, he was at a computer and using some kind of program. The blank was the same as the modern, apparently it's been in use for some time. It sounds like my large pad is a Slaymaker, pictures to all my finds from the local antique mall (they tend to use the term "Antique" very loosely) are at

http://s1135.photobucket.com/albums/m63 ... New%20Old/

I have no idea how old the Yale's are....perceived wear is probably a poor indication ofthe actual lock age.

[camelgd]

I hate to be the one to state the obvious, but the best way to determine their age is either:
1) Card them.
2) Cut them in half and count the rings.
3) Ask them outright (remember the females will lie about their age)
Seriously, try the Lock Museum website that is up in Connecticut, and The National Locksmith I believe offers a book on antique padlocks.
Camelgd