Corbin K-N-L

[rustylock]

Sure I'll get heck for this question, but can you replace a five pin Corbin Russwin K-N-L with a six pin Corbin Russwin K-N-L? How about Schlage same question?

Also for Mortise are there just the two sizes 1 1/8th or 1 1/4? Is there a slandered mortise size for removable double door Mullions?

Does best only come in SIFC and is there anyway to get a picture of a Sargent large format IC compared to a Sargent SIFC?

[Evan]

@rustylock:

Welcome to LP101...

To your first question: It depends on the specific model of lock, do you have any more info about it... Roughly speaking Grade 3 locks are usually a special cylinder design so you are usually stuck with 5 pin cylinders... Grade 2 and Grade 1 locks usually come with a 6 pin cylinder unless you special order them with cylinders that are drilled 6 but only pinned 5...

To your second question: Mortise cylinders come in many sizes but the two you mentioned are the most common... Thicker doors would require longer cylinders as the mortise lock case is mounted centered in the thickness of the door... Key Removable mullions use standard size cylinders, Von Duprin for instance uses 1.25" mortise cylinders in their offering...

To your third question: Best SFIC locks only come in SFIC, Best does make some small fixed cylinder cam locks which are compatible with some of the original Best keyways but those are an oddity of their product line... All products offered by all lock manufacturers that are SFIC are compatible with each others cores and housings... LFIC's vary in their specifications and in order for a core to fit it has to be made to fit a specific type of housing unique to the OEM, there are a few retro-fit higher security LFIC's which can be purchased which would allow you to use different OEM LFIC door hardware in the same keying system: i.e. Peaks, Bi-Lock...

~~ Evan

[rustylock]

With my first question corbin K-N-L I briefly looked at the cylindrical other then know it's corbin and so is the key way. The potential client wants a re-key, but their last few maintenance personnel threw in different manufacturers (locksets and key ways hence wanting a re-key all one key). For the most part everything is six pin, but about 13 corbins. Not 100% but the cylindricals should be grade 1 possibly grade 2.

I've been in the trade for six years, but its been three years since Ive really dealt with commercial locksets (mainly residential). So Ive been digging for my answer and found this site.

Thanks

[rustylock]

Tuesday Ill get to look closer and will pull the cylinder to check and make sure its not a six pin cylinder just keyed five. If by chance it is a five pin cylinder can you purchase just a handle to accommodate for a six pin without buying all new lever sets? Or any way to modify to accommodate?

Until Tuesday unfortunately I'm stuck being vague. Sorry just trying to get an idea for now what possibilities I could be looking at.

[Evan]

Tuesday Ill get to look closer and will pull the cylinder to check and make sure its not a six pin cylinder just keyed five. If by chance it is a five pin cylinder can you purchase just a handle to accommodate for a six pin without buying all new lever sets? Or any way to modify to accommodate?

@rustylock:

No, sometimes choices have to be made, keep the existing hardware and have additional special keys for them or replace the (in your case 13) incompatible hardware to allow for a single master key for the entire facility...

This scenario is common in the situation you described, site maintenance personnel installed locks which were not compatible with the master key system and just gave those additional keys to just that lock to anyone who needed access... Those locks were cheaper or easier to obtain rather than conforming to a standard hardware schedule so that they would be compatible with the building keying system...

~~ Evan

[cledry]

With my first question corbin K-N-L I briefly looked at the cylindrical other then know it's corbin and so is the key way. The potential client wants a re-key, but their last few maintenance personnel threw in different manufacturers (locksets and key ways hence wanting a re-key all one key). For the most part everything is six pin, but about 13 corbins. Not 100% but the cylindricals should be grade 1 possibly grade 2.

I've been in the trade for six years, but its been three years since Ive really dealt with commercial locksets (mainly residential). So Ive been digging for my answer and found this site.

Thanks

The Corbins will be 6 pin. If you have other manufacturers levers, that are not IC such as Schlage you should be able to purchase a cylinder from Ilco in the Corbin keyway if it is one of the common keyways. If your Corbin is one of the less common ones then this will not work.

You need first to identify which keyway. Then you need to determine what other locks, brands and models; then we can help sort it out for you.

Mortise cylinders can be almost any length from 1" (5 pin) on up to over 3" for special purpose ones. All the 1 1/8" or longer should be 6 pin.

[cledry]

Forgot to mention that for quite some time Corbin and Russwin have been the same. So if you have a Russwin lock chances are you can get a Corbin cylinder for it.

[rustylock]

Yes thats why they call it pre 70. I know they where separate at first then one bought the other.

Ill be back with more information when I get to go back out. Thanks for the help!

[cledry]

Yes thats why they call it pre 70. I know they where separate at first then one bought the other.

Ill be back with more information when I get to go back out. Thanks for the help!

No, it isn't, the pre 70 series and 70 series is something altogether different. The two companies have been allied for much longer but had different lines, with some interchangeability, in the 1990s though the lines became essentially one product.

As long as you know what is the same between the companies though you should be OK.

[Evan]

Yes thats why they call it pre 70. I know they where separate at first then one bought the other.

Corbin-Russwin has been one company for 110 years, they merged in 1902 although they operated under a different name back then...

The "System 70" vs. "Pre-System 70" has to do with the bitting depth system used in a particular keying system... Pre-System 70 is generally a ten depth two-step progression bitting system on the most common keyway classes, 1-0(ten) for Corbin and 0-9 for Russwin... System 70 is a six depth single-step progression bitting system and is 1-6 on all keyways it is used on...

System 70 allowed for larger keying systems that is why it was introduced...

The keyway class is very important with Corbin-Russwin products. many of the older systems used differently sized pins due to having plug diameters which were different sizes so you have to take care to recognize the keyway class: DH-class, N-class, Z-class, X-class, etc...

~~ Evan