MY pin kits ...

[Sinifar]

I have read most of your posts on pin kits. All are very good. But what are you using them for?

Are you just playing with locks? Are you an institutional locksmith? Are you a hobbyist locksmith? A Part timer? Or is this how you make your daily bread?

Each has their own unique answer.

From my point of view, most spend way too much for what they get, and use only a partial amount of the contents of a pin kit. Buy your pin kits from a reputable locksmith supply house, and not over the internet - internet people rip you off really bad.

Factory kits are very expensive, have "all the right pins" - in the EXACT sizes, and sometimes extra parts.

Aftermarket pins are pin assortments which can fit almost any lock.

There are really BIG pin kits, and little ones. There are one manufacturer specific mini kits, and general mini kits. The mini kits are affordable, and cover a lot for not a lot of cash.

Pins come in .115 which is standard for the industry, and .110 for interchangeable core. (Arrow - Best - KSP)

Pins for padlocks and other locking devices like desk drawers are one type only, and unless you rekey those on a regular basis, it makes no sense to invest in something you will not use. Disk lock kits are also one manufacturer specific, and you need one for each type you normally sell and service.

Chicago ACE is another one which has it's own kit, and here again, unless you regularly service this lock, it can be difficult to work with. Trust me, I have seen our people struggle with them.

I won't go into Mul-T-Lock, Emhart High Security, or Medeco Kits, both standard and Bi-ax. If you are into this genre, you are working in a professional area which needs specific training, and no amateur should be screwing around with these if you are selling them to the consuming public.

If you are in institutional locksmith, and are servicing only one brand of lock, it makes sense to have the "factory" pin kit for that brand.

If you are trying in any way to make money at this game, then you need an aftermarket kit. Preferably one made by LAB.

My story - When I completed my apprenticeship in the early 70's, I bought my first kit - a Zipf Lock .005 kit. That was all which was out there at that time. In time this biz expanded and we bought an ESP .005 kit. Later on we bought our LAB .005 Woody. The last one is what we are using today in our downsized operations, in the bunker.

ON the road - we use a LAB .003 mini kit, and a LAB 3 in 1 kit. This is compact and services most of what is being rekeyed today.

Both service Schlage - Kwikset - Weiser, and the mini kit also covers Sargent - Arrow - Yale - Weslock.

The mini kit has master pins in it, and the 3 in 1 does not, although, you can put some in the top filler piece and take your master pins with you, which is what we did.

Why use a mini kit on the road? You are NOT a locksmith until you have dropped a pin kit. We all have at one time or the other. If you drop a mini kit, it is no big deal to work thru the mess with a dial caliper and sort pins. DROP one of the big ones, and you will be separating pins until dooms day.

So .005 or .003? Both will work for most locks without problems. If you are using pins for Schlage, those are .165, thru .300 in .015 jumps. So either one will work. If you are doing Emhart (Corbin - Russwin) Then the .003 kit would work better, as the sizes are closer to what is in the factory Cylinder Servicing Manual. AND they really work slick in the LFIC cores.

.005 pins have a "flat top" - .003 are crowned. Both work fine.

As far as wear, any kit will do fine. I have never seen excessive wear with LAB pins, or for that matter factory pins either, just that the "original pins" cost twice as much, so - Ask yourself -----

What is your return on your investment?

That is the bottom line.

Sinifar

[cledry]

I have seen excessive wear on brass pins. For ordinary rekeying we use either Lab .003 or .005 pin kits but we also use factory ones for MK jobs and IC core work. We have factory kits for Schlage, Sargent, Corbin/Russwin, Yale and of course all the high security stuff we use. We buy Lab OEM for the factory kits and haven't had any trouble. The nickle silver pins definitely are better wearing.

[minifhncc]

we also use factory ones for MK jobs

Why is that, if I may ask?

Are the LAB master pins unsuitable?

[jeffmoss26]

I am a hobbyist/tinkerer...
My first kit was a Schlage retail kit that I got basically new, from a hardware store that closed. I followed that up with a LAB mini .003 kit which does most brands. Sargent locks are my favorite, and I have a lot of them, so I got all the various pins and parts and made my own kit. This week I won a LAB mini Sargent kit on ebay, for half the price of a new kit.

[IndigoChild]

I got a .005 Lab pin kit. the long metal case one. I use it quite a bit in both hobby use and professiional use. It is pretty rugged and closes tight. It has ear tabs on the siides so I can pick it up and move it. The tray lifts out for additional storage of small things like keys shims or kwikset tools. a

[Squelchtone]

Buy your pin kits from a reputable locksmith supply house, and not over the internet - internet people rip you off really bad.

Your posts bring a lot of wisdom, and we see and appreciate that, but I have to respectfully disagree with your statement about "internet people" ripping you off really bad. That's a very blanket statement man, and I don't feel it represents everyone's life experiences. Perhaps something went wrong in one of your own online purchases, if so, I'd like to hear about it.

I know some people from certain generations, who may have not grown up on or with the Internet are to this day very hesitant about buying things on line because you'll either not get what you paid for or your information gets stolen.

I bought my LAB .003 pin kit on ebay for only $90 dollars and it was brand new. Unless you're a trading locksmith who has time to go down to HL Flake and hang around the counter, I don't see anything wrong with buying locksmith supplies over the internet. Heck, that's how I get everything from Lockmasters, and they're a well known name in the industry. If you meant to say don't buy things from fly by night 1 man operation web sites selling bump keys or specialty locksmith tools, then yes, there have been some time to time that have had issues and people just learn to go to the bigger online suppliers where reliability, good communications, and fast shipping is the norm.

Thanks for your contributions thus far, looking forward to more,
Squelchtone

[lockstar5000]

Our locksmith course came with the LAB ,005 mini kit. Our instructor said that if you can't make it work with the .005 kit you probably shouldn't be a locksmith.

[Sinifar]

Okay, I admit I maybe wrong...

BUT I have been looking on line for things, just for giggles.

When I compare prices with my normal supply chain, they are 20 to 50 bux and sometimes much higher.

For example, I saw a LAB .005 Woodie on the net for 369.00 -- from the normal supplier - 245.00 // LAB mini .003 - Net - 90.00, supplier, 75.00..

HPC picks can be had for much less. A small kit net - 29.00, supply chain - 16.00.

I can go on. Just my point, that things are more expensive when you are working outside the normal lock supply chain.

YA, one can stand at HL Flake and wait, or any other supplier - or just get an account, and call the thing in. They will send it out. Probably COD - but unless you are a long time client that is the way it is.

Not to paint the whole scene with a broad brush, but looking around at on line prices versus what I can pay by calling H. Hoffman there is a substantial difference.

If I have offended, I am sorry - but again, I am an old smith, and before I buy anything, I try to justify the cost of what I am buying against what I can make off of it - or the use of it. Are there calls coming in which I am turning down, and could DO if I had something new? Or is this just another one of the money pits where you only throw money at the problem, and never get much of a return on your investment?

I suppose if this is a hobby, then like all hobbies it really doesn't matter what you pay for something. I have hobbies which I have sunk loads of cash into, and will never get thing one out of it, except the enjoyment of the hobby.

Lastly, I would love to post pix, if I could - there is tons of old stuff around the shop which could prove interesting, and some people have never seen.

Just an old hand sliding on down the road. Maybe in another 10 to 15 years they will plant me, then I will retire.

Sinifar

[Squelchtone]

If I have offended, I am sorry - but again, I am an old smith, and before I buy anything, I try to justify the cost of what I am buying against what I can make off of it - or the use of it.

Not at all, I think I misunderstood what you said actually. Internet price, although seemingly lower than retail, is never as good as the price one gets with an open account at a locksmith supply place, I thought you meant that anytime you buy something on the internet someone will just take your money and run and you'll never receive your package in the mail.

Have a good weekend everybody,
Squelchtone

[averagejoe]

Another place to look is eBay. While many people hate it and there are a lot of idiots there you can get some great deals. I got a brand new Best pin kit with a small piece of wood broken by the capping block cutout separator for a little over $200. A full set of real Best replacement pins for $80.

I have seen other kits got for an absolute pittance. While it may not be as great as a website like Clearstar for locksmith stuff, some things still get through.

[cledry]

we also use factory ones for MK jobs

Why is that, if I may ask?

Are the LAB master pins unsuitable?

They don't work as smoothly. Most factory or OEM Lab pins are nickel silver so have better wear characteristics. Lab also doesn't contain some of the specialist pins for some of the MK work we do in their universal kits. If you have a .005 kit and the real pin depth is say .027" you can either use .025" or .030" so the best you can hope for is to be .002" within spec. Then if the bottom pin is also off by a thousandth or two you may end up with a lock that doesn't work smoothly. So for peace of mind we will use OEM pins (which are often made by lab anyway). Take a Yale master pin and compare it to a Lab Universal pin and you can plainly see the differences.