About tools for lever locks

[fgarci03]

Hello,

I have started to work my way into lever locks a while ago. I found the guides around here to be very helpfull (specialy illusion's one).

Recently, I have also read zeke79's help to LordRezno which cleared a lot of my doubts.

But a few questions remain, mainly about tools.
Simple lever locks are easy enough to pick with a couple of wires. I find them harder to bend in an ergonomic shape, than to pick those locks in fact.
But what about the 2-in-1's?
I mean, there are so many different locks out there. Here in Portugal, most lever locks used in doors are 6 lever with the bolt in the middle. Zeke79 said it would be a bit difficul to pick those just with wires, and he stated:

If your lock has the bolt in the middle of the lever pack you may run into trouble unless you can fit both pick ends of the two in one on the bolt stump to switch from picking above the bolt stump and below the bolt stump without removing tension.

So my question is: what 2-in-1's are avaliable out there that are able to do this? Or what is the best tool for these kinds of locks?
And about the sizes, although most locks here feature the same size of key, it's possible that I come across bigger/smaller ones. Going to need other tools?

I'm trying to be as thorough as possible, since 2-in-1's are kinda expensive and I don't wanna be stuck with one that can only open 1 or 2 locks

P.S. - I'm looking at the lever pick in this post. It seems to me that this is the most all around type of pick around, and gets away with pretty much any lever lock. Am I right?

[fgarci03]

I also wonder what's the difference between a 5, 6 or 7 gauge.

In a first google search, I selected these:
http://www.sks.co.uk/products/mortice-p ... indicator/
http://www.ukbumpkeys.com/product_UKBK- ... _index.php - there is also a 7g pick
http://www.walkerlocksmiths.co.uk/morti ... afe-picks- what are "safe picks"? And why are they extended?
http://www.walkerlocksmiths.co.uk/morti ... -one-picks - what's the difference between the CB universal 7g 2-in-1 and the other 2? In terms of picking of course, not the brand of the thing

Thank you

[zeke79]

The pic you references is a 2 in 1 pick. It will not work on curtained lever locks but should do fine on non curtained locks. You may have to modify it a bit to work in some locks. These are really not bad to make if you can silver solder and have access to a metal lathe.

As far as which 2 in 1 will work to pick a lock with the bolt stump in the middle of the lever pack will depend on what lock you are working with. It comes down to how wide the stump is (ie how much of a gap is between the levers where the stump is located) and how thick both ends of the 2 in 1 pick are together. You may have to thin those portions of the pick down to work in some locks. You have to be able to switch which leg of the 2 in 1 pick is tensioning the bolt stump so both of the legs need to be able to fit in the gap created by the stump.

Key stem sizes will vary especially when dealing with curtained lever locks. In UK these are on a G scale system (ie 5G). This is a reference to the diameter of the stem where it enters the curtain.

[zeke79]

I also wonder what's the difference between a 5, 6 or 7 gauge.

In a first google search, I selected these:
http://www.sks.co.uk/products/mortice-p ... indicator/
http://www.ukbumpkeys.com/product_UKBK- ... _index.php - there is also a 7g pick
http://www.walkerlocksmiths.co.uk/morti ... afe-picks- what are "safe picks"? And why are they extended?
http://www.walkerlocksmiths.co.uk/morti ... -one-picks - what's the difference between the CB universal 7g 2-in-1 and the other 2? In terms of picking of course, not the brand of the thing

Thank you

The universal 7g 2 in 1 is a safe lock kit. They are extended to reach through the thickness of a safe door into the lock. The other kits are for mortise lever locks. Again the G is the size of the stem.

The difference between the brands I can't help with as much. I do know that CB picks have a good reputation for requiring little or no modification while others sometimes require more.

[fgarci03]

These are really not bad to make if you can silver solder and have access to a metal lathe.

I'm not able to do it

You may have to thin those portions of the pick down to work in some locks.

So in theory, any 2-in-1 that fits there may or may not just need a little trimming to be able to fit both pieces in the bolt stump to do that right?

Key stem sizes will vary especially when dealing with curtained lever locks. In UK these are on a G scale system (ie 5G). This is a reference to the diameter of the stem where it enters the curtain.

So the gauge is the measure of the key, the difference between the picks is the heigh of the legs of the pick?
How can I measure a key to know if it's a 5 or 7G then?

They are extended to reach through the thickness of a safe door into the lock.

I've seen some safes with lever locks and they don't seem to be very deep (at least I don't think so). Are these just for specialized safes with very deep keyways, or are most like that and I haven't realized?

The other kits are for mortise lever locks.

Is there a difference in picking a mortise lever lock or a regular one?


Sorry for the million questions, but as I said, these things are too expensive to buy without be sure of what I'm doing

[zeke79]

So in theory, any 2-in-1 that fits there may or may not just need a little trimming to be able to fit both pieces in the bolt stump to do that right?

Correct.

So the gauge is the measure of the key, the difference between the picks is the heigh of the legs of the pick?
How can I measure a key to know if it's a 5 or 7G then?

The gauge is a measure of the key yes. The measure is the diameter of the stem where the bitting is. Not a measure of the height of the bitting but the diameter of the stem only. As far as how to figure out what size diameter equals a 5g or 7g stem you may have to look that up. What it comes down to is that a 7g 2 in 1 will not fit into a 6g lock. The tube portion of the pick will not enter the keyway as it's too big around.

I've seen some safes with lever locks and they don't seem to be very deep (at least I don't think so). Are these just for specialized safes with very deep keyways, or are most like that and I haven't realized?

This probably depends on the safe. If it has alot of fireproofing and a high TL rating the lock will be deeper in the door than a cheaper safe.

Is there a difference in picking a mortise lever lock or a regular one?

Mortise refers to how the lock is installed into the door. Most lever locks on homes, businesses etc are mortised into the door. A mortise lever lock is your run of the mill lever lock. I believe they say "mortise" on the sites to differentiate them from safe picks.

[fgarci03]

A mortise lever lock is your run of the mill lever lock

Sorry my english, didn't understand this

I believe they say "mortise" on the sites to differentiate them from safe picks.

I see, I was looking at it the wrong way. As if there was a difference between picking a mortise lock (installed IN the door), and a regular lever lock (installed ON the door)

You said a 7g will not fit a 6g. I've looked at it in wikipedia, and there was an image of a tool to measure that. The higher the G, the thinner the piece. Am I looking at it the wrong way? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_gauge
Wouldn't that be the opposite? A 7g would fit in a 6g, but not the other way around?

And LAST question (for now ahaha )
Are the heights of the picks all the same? My main concern is the legs of the pick being too big or too small for the locks.
The usual locks I find have this kind of key:

(it's not a key in use, no problem posting it)

There are many variations tough, as there are much shorter keys than this one. But I think the height of the key bitting is the same on all of them.

[zeke79]

Sorry my english, didn't understand this

A mortise lever lock is what is installed normal doors in UK etc.

You said a 7g will not fit a 6g. I've looked at it in wikipedia, and there was an image of a tool to measure that. The higher the G, the thinner the piece. Am I looking at it the wrong way? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_gauge
Wouldn't that be the opposite? A 7g would fit in a 6g, but not the other way around?

You are correct. Evidently I was typing too fast.

And LAST question (for now ahaha )
Are the heights of the picks all the same? My main concern is the legs of the pick being too big or too small for the locks.

That I can't answer as I have only owned a few non curtained lever locks so I ended up building the tools myself for them.

[fgarci03]

Thank you Zeke79. You have helped me so much!