how to identify these indian locks and learn about them

[goluman]

hi friends
i am a total newbie in the art of lock picking.I saw videos of a lock picking competition and on a whim bought a cheap set of picks from deal extreme and started reading about the skill required for this art.
I am attaching a pic of the locks I have pic (top row) the cheap picks i purchased and the kind of locks available in my country.(bottom row).
I have got the hang of opening the barrel/cylinder type of locks as you can see in the top row.However in my country(india) the locks such as Master locks etc are not available.The locks which are commonly available are those as shown in the bottom row.
I am able to feel the levers move using the pick i have but have no idea about the kind of tool required for the tensioning.
Can some one guide me in the proper selection of tools and technique to open the type of locks shown in the bottom row of the attached pic?
I know how to make a key using a blank using files and dremel , i feel that picking is more elegant and want to try that if possible.
Suggestions from the experts here are most welcome.
Thanks in advance

[Solomon]

Those picks are for pin tumbler locks. They will open the 2 drawer locks in your picture, but you'll need to take a different approach towards those padlocks because they use a lever mechanism. I actually wrote up a guide on lever padlocks yesterday, but the mechanism in yours will be slightly different. The ones I'm familiar with are positive locking, meaning you need to use the key both for opening and locking... padlocks I've seen like the ones in your picture only needed the key to open, and had a spring loaded shackle which clicked into place when shut. For those you can just pull on the shackle for tension and push the levers up into place using a standard hook pick. Just rotate the curtain to get access to the levers and push sraight up.

The instructions I wrote up on picking lever padlocks may not apply exactly to these locks, but the basic mechanism is the same. You have a series of levers with gates, and a bolt assembly with a stump which needs to pass through all the gates when they're lined up correctly. You need to look at how the key actuates the bolt and figure out a way to tension it.

It'd be helpful if you could take a pic of some of the keys, as well as the bolt, and also the notch in the shackle to see how the bolt actually locks into it. Do they require the use of the key to re-lock or can you just close the shackle and they lock again automatically? Cheers

[goluman]

@solomon - Bought a bunch of old locks from the rubbish dump.Have cut the front and back of one which had 3 rivets only with a dremel.Am soaking the lock in kerosene to get the crud off and after that will dose them with some eau wd 40 and take pictures.the locks here need the key to both lock and unlock. seeing their mechanism the guides posted by you and illusion come very close to the mechanism of the locks we have here.The differences i could see was that the bolt engaging the shackle was very flimsy in the locks here and therefore potentially shimmable ,using your technique of filed hacksaw blade.
The major difference though is a rotating barrel in the top of the keyhole which prevents access to picks.
i have googled up an image of a common indian lock and tried to show the rotating barrel.However your technique of using the rear hole can be applied from the front .I will try that after de crudding the locks I have purchased and keep you updated if you are interested.
Thanks for your post on lever locks it was very helpful.

[Solomon]

Interesting. Any padlocks with curtains I've seen only acted as a guide for the key... if these require a full 360 degree turn to lock and unlock, that could be interesting. Curtained mortice locks are common here; the curtain has a protrusion at the back which is what locks into the bolt and throws it. In the case of these padlocks it could work in a similar way OR it could be a case of the tip of the key throwing the bolt, with the curtain acting only as a shield. From that picture, it says 7 levers on the padlock and I'm counting 8 cuts on the key so it could be the latter case.

If you apply tension to the curtain, does it spin freely or does it stop at around the 10 o'clock position? If it stops, that means the curtain is what actuates the bolt. You'll be able to tension the curtain with a standard tension tool and use a wire to lift the levers... the curtain won't prevent picking as much as you might think. You just need a wire with a little kink on the end which lets it rotate back and forth over the curtain.

If it spins freely, you can tackle it the same way as in my guide, just the wires will need to be quite thin and shaped a bit differently. The curtain won't be an issue since the tension wire will hold the curtain steady, you just need to make sure it holds the curtain around at about 10-11 o'clock when inserted to allow access to the levers with a standard curtain pick wire.

Just FYI, here's a pic of a curtain pick wire. The curve allows it to reach over the curtain and under the levers like so. Not as complicated as you might think!

You made a good decision taking one apart to investigate. Looking forward to those pics.

[goluman]

This is how it looks ,standard lever lock ,

the standard curtain pick suggested by you should work and even simpler ones with 14-16 gauge wires.
Will try those out tommorrow.
heres how it looks with some levers in place

this is very addictive

[Solomon]

Cool pics! Looks like there's no tab on the curtain, so it'll be the tip of the key which actuates the bolt.

For your tension wire, just bend an upstand the same height as the tip of the key (so it's the legth from where it rests in the curtain to the notch in the bolt). Same idea as the front tension method I explained in my guide, but instead of resting on the bottom of the keyway, it's the bottom of the curtain. As for the pick wire, a simple kink to alow it over the curtain and under the levers will suffice.

The levers look like they sit very low on the curtain so you'll probably need to corskcrew under them, which takes a bit of getting the feel for. It might be wise to make a prelifter, ie. grind a key down for tension so it raises the levers to their lowest cut height. This will apply tension and raise the levers a small amount, which will give you space to get under them with your wire. Any levers with a very low lift will be automatically set as well.

The good news is, the gates are considerably bigger than the stump and there are no false gates so they should be pretty easy to pick once you get the general feel for them. There should be a nice snap as each lever sets, and any set lever will have quite a bit of wiggle so it should be really easy to tell if a lever is set or not. Keep us posted!

[goluman]

will do, thanks for the advice, will cover this with perspex and practice on this one .
In India the biggest deterrent to lock picking is not fancy tumblers and guards ,its @#$$%%!!! Rust.
Have to soak all the old locks i bought in kerosene, wd40 before i can get the levers to move at all.im going to buy a few new ones to practise.
thanks for your help and advice once again.

[Solomon]

Perspex is a great idea. Once you pick one like that, you'll find making tools for other locks will make more sense. When you have the tools right, you should generally find them quite easy to pick.

Considering the amount of rust I've seen on some locks, the levers have almost always been in surprisingly good working condition. In my experience, the bolts are more prone to seizure than the levers and in many cases the bolt will feel like it isn't moving at all when in fact under heavy tension it will actually move quite nicely once the gates are aligned. If the levers won't raise at all though, yeah that's gonna be an issue.

Good luck and keep us posted!