Mastering schlage locks

[mmartini]

I am a new GM of a hotel in NJ. Because of past issues with maters keys being lost or stolen I have to rekey the whole hotel and I am hoping to do it myself. I found the mathematical formula to key the locks for 1 GM and 1 M key but I need to also be able to add a 3rd key for each individual guest room, The locks are all by Schlage. Any help that you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

[2octops]

Call a locksmith and save yourself the liability that will soon come to be if you try and tackle this by yourself.

Trying to masterkey a hotel is not a DIY job.

[keysman]

Trying to masterkey a hotel is not a DIY job.

good advise +1

I recommend NOT using your local yellow colored phone book to find a locksmith.
Many local phone books in the US are FULL of Scammers. Do a search for “locksmith scams” to get an idea of what you may encounter.

To find a professional locksmith in your area you can try here:
http://www.clearstar.com/yellform.htm

[Altashot]

I agree. Without proper knowledge and experience at master keying, a hotel maybe too complex for a DIY'er. You could get the master key system created and all the code cut key made by a locksmith and re-key the locks yourself. You could learn more that way and be able to expand and maintain the system afterwards. A common issue with misunderstood system is the creation of interchange and ghost masters.
If you don't know what that means, you better get a locksmith.

M.

[cledry]

Trying to masterkey a hotel is not a DIY job.

good advise +1

I recommend NOT using your local yellow colored phone book to find a locksmith.
Many local phone books in the US are FULL of Scammers. Do a search for “locksmith scams” to get an idea of what you may encounter.

To find a professional locksmith in your area you can try here:
http://www.clearstar.com/yellform.htm

None of the established locksmiths in our area pay to be on Clearstar. I would simply choose someone based on the experiences of others or someone who has been established in the area for a long time. I prefer to think having a shop adds a degree of stability to a business too, although there are exceptions to this rule.

[Sinifar]

ClearStar works, I have been on there for ages -- or try to find a reputable smith via ALOA ... Associated Locksmiths of America. I know a lot don't like them, but they have been around forever, and most smiths who do belong know what they are doing. (Sez here in fine print)

http://www.aloa.org and try the "Locate a Locksmith" in your area. That as well will work.

Masterkeying work is an art, and unless you are very experienced at this one, D I Y is going to backfire on you.

Sinifar

[lp31]

ClearStar works, I have been on there for ages -- or try to find a reputable smith via ALOA ... Associated Locksmiths of America. I know a lot don't like them, but they have been around forever, and most smiths who do belong know what they are doing. (Sez here in fine print)

http://www.aloa.org and try the "Locate a Locksmith" in your area. That as well will work.

Masterkeying work is an art, and unless you are very experienced at this one, D I Y is going to backfire on you.

Sinifar

This im no locksmith but i would hate to see you put in all that effort to make the call anyway. I understand the diy attitude, but this is not one of those times. You dont want to compromise security in the system by doing it yourself, not to mention the headache. Make the call . And i dont think anyone is doubting your abilities or thinks you cant do it, its just a job that takes experience and if you havent done quite a few master key systems in the past and excelled i would not advise it when peoples security relies on the job you did. My diy attitude would be saying the same thing yours is, fight it lol.

[cledry]

ClearStar works, I have been on there for ages -- or try to find a reputable smith via ALOA ... Associated Locksmiths of America. I know a lot don't like them, but they have been around forever, and most smiths who do belong know what they are doing. (Sez here in fine print)

http://www.aloa.org and try the "Locate a Locksmith" in your area. That as well will work.

Masterkeying work is an art, and unless you are very experienced at this one, D I Y is going to backfire on you.

Sinifar

Have you noticed a boost in your business from ClearStar? I'm curious about any referral system that is based on paying to play. How thoroughly do they vet the people who join? We stay very busy as it is, about $15K - $20K a week but if ClearStar works I might be interested.

[2octops]

It depends on your region if you benefit from the Yellowpages listing on Clearstar or any other site.

Members there are very "vetted".

Clearstar is not a referral kind of site other than members referring other members that they know are in the customers area. You don't actually get referrals just for being a member.

[Sinifar]

I am not sure if ANY of the referral stuff really works, as it is. We are listed on the ALOA site, have been a member since 1974 - listed on ClearStar, since 2004, and in the YP on line / and our own web page. How much does any of it really work?

Hard to tell, but judging from recent inquiries of new accounts, web page does the most, with the others trailing behind.

AS far as vetting somebody - how do you do that? Unless you came down here and had a look at the wall of factory certs, there would be no way you can tell for sure that I actually am "factory trained". After 46 years in the trade, I still don't know everything - I learn something new it seems every week. But what I do know is solid and our clients expect me to do the job in a "workman like manner".

There is always something new to learn. I continually take classes when offered. I stay up with the latest in access controls, and new lock developments, and the latest product releases. Our last class was from Kaba on the new E-plex updates in their computer related programs to run the system via the local WIFI network, and how to do that. Earlier in the day Master Lock had a class on the new locker - school locks and the new developments in that field. Always something new, and I stay up to date with the latest.

Anybody who takes ANY locksmith basic class, like Foley, can call themselves a "locksmith" -- from there it is experience and hands on working which makes the difference.

MY opinions and thoughts are usually radically different from most others, based on field experience. I learned this trade at the bench as an apprentice and I learned a lot which most today will never see. Okay that was dated to the mid 60's -- but I have kept up on things, have the LIST council book and have changed my "terms" from what I was taught, to what it used today.

You say potato, and I say potatoe. It is that type of difference.

Just one more. When I was getting into the trade, my teacher for a "final test" of mortise locks, and remember this was the 60's -- took two different mortise locks apart, and some extra parts and threw them into a box. I had 20 minutes to reassemble them into working locks, stuffing the right parts and springs into the cases in the box, and identifying the left over parts as to who they belonged to. WHAT relevance does that have?

Back in the West Allis days, I had a plant engineer come into the shop and threw an odd mortise lock bolt on the counter and asked me to identify it. Took one look at it, and identified it as a Russwin latch and told him the model number. We had that account until the day they tore the plant down. It helps to know your PARTS -- and the knowledge of what makes locks work.

Today most would be hard pressed to identify any odd ball part pulled from an assembly and identify the lock manufacturer from that part alone. That takes extensive knowledge of locks and the trade, which most do not get anymore.

Making of a master locksmith is not something which is done from a book, or any one single course. It comes from the years of field work, bench work, and classes taken continuously over time.

There is no way to "vet" any tradesman without extensively questioning them, or stopping by their works and seeing what they have on display from the classes they have taken. Walk into any garage and look at the certs they display. All trades do that not only ours.

Sinifar

[cledry]

Actually we don't display our certificates. I've got a binder full and so does my boss. I guess we are just different here. None of our customers choose us based on the number of certificates on the wall. Besides our walls are covered with merchandise. We get most of our business from word of mouth I guess, although we do have a sales person that actively seeks new customers.

For example.

Just today I impressed a new customer. They had a church that they needed to install 3 cylinders in and then disable @20 vertical rod exit devices and pick open 7 Schlage locks. The exterior was all Mul-T-Lock. They called the first locksmith GOOGLE spit out, Israeli scammers turned up. The kid started taking apart one exit device then another, after an hour the tough guy showed up and started telling the customer he would need to be paid upon completion and that the cost would be $1200 to $1500. The customer threw them off their property and called someone who gave them our number. I showed up to find two exit devices disassembled on the ground, and I mean disassembled, right down to component level, roll pins, springs, inside trim all taken apart to do a simple cylinder swap. I first opened the Schlage locks then worked my around the perimeter. To disable the exit devices I remove the head cover, slide out two retainer pins, slide the yoke sideways, remove the two screws holding the outside trim, unscrew the mortise cylinder and turn it upside-down, reverse the procedure to assemble. The long and short is I was done, start to finish in 3 hours and charged 3 hours labor, our trip charge and 3 cylinders. 25% of what the other guy quoted. Oh and that included putting all the pieces of what the other guy had disassembled back together. He hadn't marked the rods for length or anything, so it was all down to experience.

The customer commented when I was finished that they had learned their lesson and would recommend us to their associates, shook my hand and said how professional I was etc...

That is the second time in one week I have picked up the pieces from these Israeli scammers.

One word of caution. Do a GOOGLE search of your company and click on any of the sponsored ads, chances are you will get these scammers. GOOGLE doesn't care and these scammers buy their way into stealing your business and hard earned name. We even had one locksmith who didn't have his own shop, display photos of safes and things inside our shop lifted from our website to make it appear as though he had an established business.

[Evan]

I am a new GM of a hotel in NJ. Because of past issues with maters keys being lost or stolen I have to rekey the whole hotel and I am hoping to do it myself. I found the mathematical formula to key the locks for 1 GM and 1 M key but I need to also be able to add a 3rd key for each individual guest room, The locks are all by Schlage. Any help that you can provide would be greatly appreciated.

@mmartini:

Excellent...

Does your AHJ require hotel locksets which allow an emergency key to operate the door even if it is in shut-out mode ? Is your hotel currently equipped with such locks ? Would you know how to properly service them if they are installed ?

How many guest rooms in your hotel ?
How many special areas which require limited staff access ?

Hotel keying is rather complicated and requires more thought than 1 GM + 1 MK and guest CK's... Not a starter project for a beginner... Save yourself a headache and call in someone who knows what they are doing...

~~ Evan