Misalignment of Euro Lock Door Handles

[crusaderman]

Before I start, apologies if this subject has already been covered.

I recently had an existing customer ask me to replace the old worn out handles on their front door. The door uses a basic multi-locking system with a 35/45 Euro-Lock.

Anyway, having carefully written down all the relevant measurements....i.e. the PZ, screw centers, handle width, length depth etc. I then trawled the internet to try and find an exact match.

The nearest match I could find was a pair of "FULLEX" handles, which although they had the correct PZ (in this case 68mm), they were slightly longer, wider and deeper with the screw fixing centers about 30mm or so further apart then the original handles. (This wasn't a problem as the new handle would cover all the old fixing holes). As I had just recently replaced their old Euro lock, I again had to replace this to match the new "thicker" handles so that the ends of the lock came "Flush".

So I am all "kitted up" with the new handles and an action plan! I'm thinking this job should be a "breeze"...30 minute job tops!
Shudda known betta!!

Anyway I got to the job, drilled the new holes through the door to match the new handles and guess what?...........................

The new spindle won't pass through the locking case! The handles have an 8mm square spindle...and the locking case is 7mm. (I wasn't expecting that!!).

So, ok I have a metre length of 7mm square bar back home in the workshop which I can cut to the required length. But because the handles each have clearance for an 8mm spindle, I decide to wrap some duck tape around each end to make a "snug" fit. The spindle also goes into each handle about 50mm so with a 60mm thick door the new spindle needs to just under 160mm. This is the reason why I couldn't use the original spindle because it was way too short.

I went back to the customer armed with the new spindle (and new longer Euro lock) confident of completing the job in a few minutes.

Now heres the thing!

When I tried to assemble the handles with the duct tape around each end of the spindle they JUST WOULD NOT ALIGN! As I passed the Euro Lock through one handle and locking case, it came about 3mm below the hole in the other handle. I tried loosening the screw fixings and wiggling the handles up and down to get them to align...they wouldnt budge. I even tried slotting the clearance holes for the fixing screws, but still no joy. When I took one handle off you could just about tell that the spindle wasn't horizontal, but I was steadily starting to lose the plot!

When everything was off the door, I assembled the handles together with the long fixing screws and the Euro lock magically slid right the way through, so I knew for sure that the handles were perfectly matched.

And so I tried one last thing. I assembled the handles back onto the door but this time without the long spindle in place...and HEY-PRESTO!...It all went together!

After some "head-scratching" I thought maybe the duct tape that I wrapped around each end of the spindle might be the restricting any movement or play necessary to assist alignment of the handles....and so I peeled it all off which in effect was only one layer, a fraction of a mm thick!

IT WORKED!!!

i STILL CAN'T GET MY HEAD AROUND HOW SOMETHING APPARENTLY SO INSIGNIFICANT COULD CAUSE SUCH A HUGE PROBLEM!

Is there a lesson to be learnt here? I know how crucial fractions of millimeters can be in locksmithing.

But for anyone who had the capacity to stay with this post...A big thanks and i hope it might help others from falling into the trap I found myself in!

Thanks again for reading.

[silvfox1200]

As we know duct tape doesn't fix everything. But good information to keep.

Thanks

[GWiens2001]

As we know duct tape doesn't fix everything.

Your license as an official male is hereby revoked!!!

Take note that even the quote area is duct-tape grey!



Gordon

[billdeserthills]

crusaderman in 24+ years of locksmithing one important thing I have relearned a lot is some jobs just blow away whatever time & material estimate I make. It doesn't happen often nowadays, but no matter what, it still happens. Instaed of the duct tape, I like to make shims from spring steel flats, but it seems even bent round spring steel wire would work as a one mm spacer. You hafta remember it's only gonna need a maximum of .25 mm per side, I just do 2 sides that are next to each other, that way the handle won't change position over the next year, or whatever your warranty period is.

Tou guys see great updated designs we won't see over here for years or ever. I bet when you break a plastic pin stack cover while rekeying a CES profile lock, you just get a new one from a stack of them.

[horsefeathers]

you bought the wrong handles


there is no such thing as a 'basic multi-locking system'. There are dozens and dozens of types, some discontinued. What was the brand of the actual mech? You have to be able to identify these things first time. Only fullex do a 68mm pz. And they always use an 8mm spindle. So if the mech wasnt fullex then buying 68mm pz handles is the whole cause of your problems. You needed 70mm ones i suspect, especially as 70mm pz together with 7mm spindle is common on Ferco. So you ended up trying to squeeze on a 68pz handle onto a 70pz gearbox

And there are exceptionally few 7mm spindle mechs out there.

incidentally you can buy purpose made sleeves that go over 7mm spindles to make them into 8mm ones.


you asked what lessons can be learned!

1) identify correctly
2) identlfy correctly
and thirdly
3) identify correctly

[mhole]

Horse feathers is spot on - it's very easy to confuse 70mm PZ with 68mm when you're measuring with a tape, but it will kick your arse if you do!

Get yourself a copy of the Duffells uovc catalogue - even if you don't order from them the catalogue is a excellent resource for ID'ing mechanisms.

[crusaderman]

Hi Horsefeathers

Thanks for your post. But just to clarify one thing here. When I said "Basic" MLS... it was really just to give the reader an instant "picture" of the job.

I do appreciate that there is almost an infinite number of variations to this type of mechanism with regard to the important dimensions and type of internal mechanics etc.

Also just to clarify that I DID accurately measure the "PZ" which was 68mm and NOT 70mm!

I agree with you that the only way to be certain of getting a precise match would be to look for the manufacturer's name/stamp. However in this particular case it was NOT visible on any part of the door strip, and the only way of finding this would have been to strip out the entire lock. NOT really a sensible option in this case, because a). I was only charging about £20 for fitting the new handles...and b). the M.L.S. was still working perfectly ok.

I am fully aware that handles are also available with a 70pz but this lock definitely had a 68pz. Yes you are probably correct in saying that Fullex always use an 8mm spindle, but they CAN NOT BE THE ONLY MANUFACTURER TO PRODUCE A LOCKING CASE WITH A 68mm pz! as I have just experienced!

I will admit that I had been "remiss" in not measuring the original spindle size as being only 7mm. And as I said in my earlier post, as soon as I removed the packing from either end of the spindle, the handle then allowed the Euro lock to "glide" straight through from one side to the other!

[horsefeathers]

well in the absence of any pics......

though only fullex do the 68pz - and never in 7mm spindle

so do still maintain it wasnt a fullex unit , but a 70mm mech.

5 min job though to undo all fixing screws and slide out the mech from the door - photo for your own archive/reference manual - then refit


we agree to differ

[crusaderman]

You are most likely right with all your experience....think I got myself into a "pickle". Thing is...as I recall ...I'm almost certain that the hole in the handle (for the Euro lock) was slightly lower by as much as 3mm at the far side. Also, when I pressed one handle up against the door with the spindle inserted it appeared to point upwards i.e. it wasnt exactly horizontal on the other side. Which may have indicated that the casing might have been on the "skew"?

Anyway, next time I get something like this I will heed your advice and check the maker's name.

[horsefeathers]

try to get pics and post on here next time

plenty of peeps on here can identify and help - that's the beauty of forums like this

[mhole]

Seriously, see if you can snag a copy of the Duffells catalogue. It's an amazingly helpful reference. Looking for names isn't always dependable, as some manufacturers rebadge their products for large customers etc.

I'm a big believer in popping the mech out to look at, unless I can ID it through the holes in the door. This is quite common, but only because I've pulled out so many in the past!