Confused on binding pin VS overset pin

[metulburr]

I know that there should be only one pin binding at a time. However, when im picking this cutaway lock with 3 pin stacks, i misinterpret the one binding pin with one that is overset. I automatically think the tension is too tight because of multi binding pins, and release a little bit only to have to restart. I only know this because of the cutaway lock, as i can see in and what is happening. Otherwise i would be in the complete dark.

Im playing with the cutaway lock feeling each positions for the pins. I really have a hard time determining these two. Sometimes an overset one pops up even more making me think it was binding and then picked. I cannot feel with the pick at all the loose bottom pin on a picked pin. So i have trouble feeling if the bottom pin is loose and free, or if is overset.


setup
I bought a Schlage cutaway practice lock on ebay. I removed the 6 security pins and put in 2 regular pins, picked them for awhile, then added a third pin. I am a very noob, within like 2 weeks.

[Squelchtone]

Hello,

take a look at page 14 of this PDF http://pdf.textfiles.com/security/lsiguide.pdf

That shows the various states pins can be in. The important take away is that an overset key pin will not come down, it will just be up or what we commonly see and feel as "hey that pin is pushed up all the way, why isnt this lock opening" (a common newbie thought process, albeit incorrect) If a pin stack is set properly, and you remove the pick, the key pin will fall back down, then you know you either have that stack set, or underset in some cases, but you can lift the pin easily with no spring resistance so that tells you there is some sort of air gap between the key pin and the pin above it.

Better understanding and feeling of when this happens will come with time and practice.
Squelchtone

[cheerIO]

I wouldn't take the tactile feelings when picking a cut-away too seriously.

They are great to understand the fundamentals of what is going on inside a lock. But in my experience, most of the time, they do not feel like a regular, complete lock when picking.

I have a couple that act normal. But I also have some that seem to have excessive binding, pins hanging up, etc.

[metulburr]

For the pin state "overset"...;What i meant is sometimes it is very little overset, just a hair over the shear line with more room to spare, and i push it up thinking it is binding underset.

Better understanding and feeling of when this happens will come with time and practice.

Maybe that is just what i need. More time. I am wondering if i am just not getting the "feeling of the pins" because its not clicking with me, or if this can be taught.

but you can lift the pin easily with no spring resistance so that tells you there is some sort of air gap between the key pin and the pin above it.

I have real trouble even feeling these key pins are loose. To me i hit them and not even notice.

@cheerIO
Interesting. Ill keep that in mind. Thank you.

[Divinorum]

It's important to note that nothing is definite. Normally one pin binds at a time but this is not always the case. I have picked many locks that have several pins bind at once and they can be picked in different orders. Usually one pin binds more than the others (if there are any others). When you set your pins push up very slow until you get that positive feedback (click, plug turns slightly, another new pin binding etc) and then stop. The key pin should feel loose with no spring or resistance. This is how I tell if a pin is set. However, note that just because a key pin is free doesn't mean that the top pin above is guaranteed to be set. It might still need an extra nudge. If you overset a pin let off your tension very slow and ever so slightly to let the pin drop down; reset it and move on.

[BSG_314159]

Im playing with the cutaway lock feeling each positions for the pins. I really have a hard time determining these two. Sometimes an overset one pops up even more making me think it was binding and then picked. I cannot feel with the pick at all the loose bottom pin on a picked pin. So i have trouble feeling if the bottom pin is loose and free, or if is overset.

From one beginner to another I would stay completely away from cutaways... Just watch videos and read about how locks work. You do not want to include a unnecessary sense like sight.

I just bought a really amazing american lock cutaway and i will not pick it because the pins are visible.

Very Light pressure on the tension wrench. Light upward pressure on the driver pins. Lots of patients.

If i think I pushed a pin to far I will release some pressure on the tension wrench and let that pin come back down and try again.

[deolslyfox]

A binding pin is hard to move. If it is a spool you will get some counter-rotation on the core.

Overset pins will move. You will also feel the spring pressure, and it may be stronger than the other pins because you have both the key and driver pins up in the bible.

To practice, overset some pins intentionally and learn how they feel compared to unset pins.

[Bandit870]

This thread is exactly what I'm going through now... I have stopped looking through the cutaway as with BSG it gives that unnecessary sense of seeing the pins move as you pick. It is all about practice and finding that feeling, which I'm currently learning.