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cat & mouse

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

cat & mouse

Postby Guest » 10 Nov 2004 14:19

lock manufacturers upgrade their designs with anti pick devices / false notches etc, ... but who are the upgrades targeted at ? the criminal or the locksmith.
ie; lever locks with anti drill plates, cylinders with mushroom pins etc ... these are anti pick measures. surely these are designed to stop the smith not the burglar.
has anyone actually any cases of a common thief picking locks, i thought they were just opportunist drugged up smash and grabbers these days.

any comments?
Guest
 

Postby Exodus5000 » 10 Nov 2004 14:58

This is kind of an interesting point. Is it possible to make a lock so good that if a key is lost, it's virtualy hopeless to salvage it even with a locksmith.

I think in general though security features like security pins and so forth are aimed to defeat the criminal element that are amateur pickers. A locksmith should be able to defeat such security devices because it is his job to do so.
[deadlink]http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6973/exodus5000ac5.jpg
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Postby TheProfessor » 10 Nov 2004 22:16

im going to have to agree with you here, if im a theif, do i honestly care what condition i leave the door in, hell no, im going to get inside it the quickest way i can. With excessive force, making all of those anti-pick countermeasures useless. Unless of course im going to steal a very valuable jewel or something of that sort, and i need stealth to get past the guards... well, stealth or some teargas :roll:
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Postby locksmistress » 11 Nov 2004 13:41

Unfortunately there is another factor in the security business other than security. Many lock manufacturers are actually in it for the money.

Classic example - Schlage. The Schlage C keyway is pretty dominant in American residential and commercial lock hardware markets. Unfortunately, Schlage has no active patent on the product so it was picked up by a variety of aftermarket manufacturers who proceded to undersell Schlage with their own product.

Unable to compete with aftermarket - consider the R&D and marketing budget a national company supports for it's product - Schlage introduced the patented 'Everest' keyway. What's more, to ensure that the Everest keyway would find it's way into the market quickly and thoroughly they restructured their distributor buying programs so that the new Everest keyway was the default stock item, therefore making many Schlage C products 'special order' items with longer lead times and higher prices.

Schlage Everest is by no means ubiquitous at this time, but it's getting there. It does boast some enhanced 'pick resistance' - but the biggest deal is the patent.

Medeco does the same thing - all of their major new product introductions are timed to conincide with the expiration of their prior patent. Just as one product enters aftermarket distribution they come out with something bigger and better to keep people hooked. Part of their selling point for locksmiths is exclusivity - no one else can get in on someone elses system or Medeco will cut them off. Once the product hits aftermarket it doesn't matter one way or another if Medeco won't sell to you any more.

So no, it's not about the actual security. The appeal to the general public is a facsimile of security and the seductive quality of 'additional features'. The appeal to the locksmith industry certainly includes the marketability that appeals to their customers but also extends to owning an exclusive keyway that can't be copied or serviced outside of the owners business.

That's not to say that locksmiths who sell high security or factory originals aren't interested in security - the products are good. But you get a lot more security from a decent door and a latchguard than you get from the newest Medeco cylinder.

It's also worth mentioning that patents = key control. A patented keyway ensures that employees/tenants won't be distributing copies of your building keys indiscriminately. It also allows complete accountability for existing keys; knowing that only one grand master key could possibly exist is pretty sweet when you fire the person who's carrying it (as long as you get it back).

Whew. Sorry for going on. I work for a contract hardware distributor and the particular subject hits a nerve.

Beside that point, I do know 2 people personally whose houses were broken into by someone who picked the lock in the past couple of months. One was a Kwikset knob, the other was a no-name garage door handle (wafer lock, ugh). No damage whatsoever to door or lock.
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