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Picking masterkeyed locks?

Having read the FAQ's you are still unfulfilled and seek more enlightenment, so post your general lock picking questions here.
Forum rules
Do not post safe related questions in this sub forum! Post them in This Old Safe

The sub forum you are currently in is for asking Beginner Hobby Lock Picking questions only.

Picking masterkeyed locks?

Postby eezacque » 10 Sep 2026 5:42

So, the pins of a masterkeyed lock consist of three parts. Does this mean that, say for a lock with 6 pins, there are 2^6 possible keys? Also, can a trained picker feel whether a lock has a master key?
eezacque
 
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Re: Picking masterkeyed locks?

Postby GWiens2001 » 11 Sep 2026 7:53

First part of your question - yes. Your math is correct. One master pin in each pin channel would create 2^6 (64) keys that will operate the lock. That is why the best description of master keying I've ever heard (by member Sinifar) is "Master keying is the controlled destruction of security." Every pin stack that has a single master pin doubles the number of keys that will work in the lock. The pin stacks with multiple master pins obviously create more permutions and increase the number of keys respectively to the number of pins.

Many of those locksmiths who are more skilled at master keying design their systems to use as few master pins as possible.

The second part of your question is yes... if they are looking for it. If the picker, no matter how skilled, only wants to get the lock open, then they won't care about whether it is master keyed or not, except to realize it will be easier to open. If they are checking to see if it is master keyed without taking apart the lock, then it can be done.

Clearly, the more key permutations that can operate a lock, the easier it is to pick the lock. That is why I roll my eyes when a customer who has a single lock on the front of their store says "I have my lock heavily master keyed because my previous locksmith explained how much it increases security".

Yes, there are least three locksmiths here in town who do that. One of them puts 2-4 master pins in every pin channel. Simple rule of thumb... if you have only one lock or only need one key to operate the lock - - - DO NOT MASTER KEY THE LOCK!!!

*** Steps off my soap box ***

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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GWiens2001
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Re: Picking masterkeyed locks?

Postby RedStagKiller » 11 Sep 2026 9:08

GWiens2001 wrote:First part of your question - yes. Your math is correct. One master pin in each pin channel would create 2^6 (64) keys that will operate the lock. That is why the best description of master keying I've ever heard (by member Sinifar) is "Master keying is the controlled destruction of security." Every pin stack that has a single master pin doubles the number of keys that will work in the lock. The pin stacks with multiple master pins obviously create more permutions and increase the number of keys respectively to the number of pins.

Many of those locksmiths who are more skilled at master keying design their systems to use as few master pins as possible.

The second part of your question is yes... if they are looking for it. If the picker, no matter how skilled, only wants to get the lock open, then they won't care about whether it is master keyed or not, except to realize it will be easier to open. If they are checking to see if it is master keyed without taking apart the lock, then it can be done.

Clearly, the more key permutations that can operate a lock, the easier it is to pick the lock. That is why I roll my eyes when a customer who has a single lock on the front of their store says "I have my lock heavily master keyed because my previous locksmith explained how much it increases security".

Yes, there are least three locksmiths here in town who do that. One of them puts 2-4 master pins in every pin channel. Simple rule of thumb... if you have only one lock or only need one key to operate the lock - - - DO NOT MASTER KEY THE LOCK!!!

*** Steps off my soap box ***

Gordon


I love it when an someone gives us a keying schedule with subs and multiple change keys (you've explained to them the security issues). You key it up and then a month later they ask for 20 master keys... :roll:
Sometimes when I stamp a "0" I turn the stamp upside-down.
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Re: Picking masterkeyed locks?

Postby GWiens2001 » 11 Sep 2026 17:22

Agreed. Why did they bother master keying at all if they were just going to hand out master keys like they were candy?

Gordon
Just when you finally think you have learned it all, that is when you learn that you don't know anything yet.
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GWiens2001
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Re: Picking masterkeyed locks?

Postby billdeserthills » 11 Sep 2026 22:43

GWiens2001 wrote:Agreed. Why did they bother master keying at all if they were just going to hand out master keys like they were candy?

Gordon


Because having a master key sounds so cool?
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