lockpicking CD - help!!

by **Peaky** » 23 Mar 2005 5:33

Gummy Bears!!! (bye bye fingerprint idea)

by **Peaky** » 23 Mar 2005 5:58

Master,
Dont be put off, we are not having a go at you and it was a good effort, its not you its the scum type of thing,

Db,
What you are missing is the fact that we all have a choice, if certain members dont want their work on somthing because they know it will be impossible to stop copying then so be it, the differance between a cd and site is that someone would have to come on site with all the terminology and spend hours upon hours finding all the relevant stuff, during this time he/she will be asking questions so they can find out more things they wanted to know, who cares if they post 3or5 newbe posts to be told to search, at some point one of us will tell them what they want to hear or where to search, now this person then has to either print it all out, save it to disc or learn it from screen, by which time either they have been wiped from the site as we have decided they are crims or they now have a little respect for the site and dont actually do what they set out to do and actually start lock picking as a hobby,
A cd on the other hand can be sold on ebay to ANYONE any age, any side of the law etc, they can be swaped and passed round pubs and clubs, they can be printed out and taken on 'jobs' etc there is no control whatsoever at least the site and its members have a little control.

Yes copy protection is in some ways easy to get past, so are high security locks, they only keep honest people out, at least a disc that has protection but has been copied is classed as a crinimal act, if people were to have to email the supplier for a program to decrypt the files on the cd the copy problem would seriously deminish as a diffeant code could be used for each disc and that could be linked to that pc (ip address for example) any copied disc would then have to mail for the code only to find out that disc has already been enabled and thus a copy.

I am on a dial up connection, have a p2 pc and it runs slowwww but if i want somthing bad enough i set it downloading and go do somthing else, a cd was a good idea but it was for the people who already knew the stuff or are going to learn it off site, the problem zeke and i have with it is that the people off site couldnt careless what went into the disc or who contributed, its more like how can i use this to get things for free, we dont want to be put in that postition where we have inadvertantly made somones life a whole lot worse through some thoughtless scumbag that bought a cd for Â£3 from the pub, yes it freely available but would you walk down the street and go to the local crim and go through the site with them showing them all the tips and tricks on site, i wouldnt so why give them a cd instead.

by **digital_blue** » 23 Mar 2005 10:05

Peaky, I understand completely. I totally agree that the orginal contributers have every right to decide what will and won't be made open to the public, and under what conditions. It was never my thought that a CD should be compiled regardless of the authors consent.

I do, however, still feel that once you put your stuff out there in a place like this there is no stopping someone from getting it. I think that you over-estimate how difficult it would be to compile this knowledge from this site. Again, it's an example of security by obscurity and time and time again it is proven that that just doesn't work.

In the end I think that we have to just come to grips with the fact that we are discussing material here that could possibly be used for nafarious purposes. That is a risk, indeed. It is unavoidable if we wish to maintain an "open forum" approach to the sharing of our knowledge. At any time I feel that the risk outweighs the reward I will be forced to stop contributing to this community. I sincerely hope that never happens.

Obviously the origial contibuter's wishes take precedence over anything else. If you wish for your contributions to be limited to this site alone that is absolutely fine. The same would go for anybody else.

I personally, however, feel it is a shame that a resource such as this CD be shelved for those reasons. As I said before, I am a supporter of the open source philosophy and I was quite enthused with the idea of so much knowledge being collected in one place and being made freely available to anyone who wants to learn. It's really, after all, no different than zeke's website. In fact, if I were up to no good, it would take me less time to find out about zeke's website, find the password, and download all the content with my highspeed connection than it would to order the CD from ebay.

I just don't see the difference.

And finally, if a criminal were to buy this material in a pub, do you really invision your typical crimial going home and taking the time to learn how to apply this knowledge? The criminal who will take that time doesn't need to buy that CD. He's already been here. He's already logged onto zeke's site. He's already out there using his knowledge. We don't talk about smash and grab techniques here. The knowledge we have is specialized, and in most cases, not of great value to the criminal mind.

db

by **zeke79** » 23 Mar 2005 10:19

The difference is the fact the people simply do not search this site. You would be amazed at how many pm's I get about asking what the password is to my site. For every one time my url is mentioned i get 5 pm's asking for the password. It was even worse with the ftp. I think to my self "Duh" search. So that is what I reply "Search". I am all about sharing info with all of those who visit this site. There is a great amount of information here for all to see. I for one just dont feel like spoon feeding the ebay slime out to make a free buck with all of our hard work.

by **digital_blue** » 23 Mar 2005 10:32

Hey, I hear you. But those n00bs that PM you are, in most case I'm sure, just lazy n00b. I still think that "spoon feeding the ebay slime" is a possible unfortunate side effect, but not really the point of the project. The point of the project is no different from your site. Collect the info in one place an make it accessible. I already have the entire collection of your site on my hard drive (at least anything I was even remotely interested in, which I think was just about all of it). It took me one small part of one evening to dl it. Anyone else could do that, and with greater ease than purchasing it from ebay. That is my whole point. I understand people's resistance to the idea, but I'm actually surprised that you of all people are one of those opposed, given the site you run. I am happy about your site, but I would think that you'd have been happy about a CD.

Oh well, as it happens I don't think it matters because the idea seems to have died here. As is often the case, it is just the principal that matters to me.

db

by **zeke79** » 23 Mar 2005 10:56

I feel my site has stayed within the ranks of lockpicking101. I frequently do searches on both google and yahoo for both my http site and my ftp site and the ony matches that come up are lp101 threads. That to me says that the members here respect the site enough to not post post links and passwords on places like totse and the likes. Those are the exact places that I do not want the CD to end up but I am afraid that the CD will get there in the end right along with ebay like I already mentioned. When or if I start to see links to my site popping up on totse or those sorts of places I will start to take corrective actions to stop it. If that means shutting my site down so be it. I am not trying to display some sort of double standard but explain the basis for my decision.

by **pick_maker** » 23 Mar 2005 20:51

Definitely include the 'Just signed up for the foley belsaw school' thread. NOT!

Can't imagine wading through that one. 22,000 views...shoulda been a sticky by now?

by **master in training** » 23 Mar 2005 20:57

nothing will be included, it cant go ahead with all the risks involved, its a shame to see it die, but theres just no way to control it. one day i might sell a cd on ebay for like Â£2.00 with a title like "learn to lockpick, find out everyhting you need to know, from bike locks to bank vaults" then just put one textfile on the cd with a link to http://www.google.com :twisted:

by **andrestl** » 29 Mar 2005 1:58

Glad to see your consideration of a cd. Sorry you won't do it ,you prob- would find it a pain to cash small checks and money orders in various contries money (I don't even know what a euro looks like) ,but I was in Europe when I was 21. Pehaps someone would come up with a diferent and secure distribution system. Unfurtunutley the logic that allows search and discovery via lockpcking is giving you fits in this plan.
Please no offense (I took the Bel-saw course when I was 22 now I'm 44)
andrestl

by **maty68** » 29 Mar 2005 8:09

Well looks like that project's gone out the window..nice to see that lockpickers still have the focus and determination to overcome a few hurdles. If this was a stubborn lock that would'nt pop...would you give up so easily? :cry:

by **digital_blue** » 29 Mar 2005 9:07

If it was somebody else's lock and they decided they didn't want you to pick it anymore, would you keep trying?

db

by **master in training** » 29 Mar 2005 10:15

i'd happily still try to make the cd, were it not for all the problems with it. theres just no way to secure it, it would basically become a cd criminals bought to learn to pick locks, almost like the anarchists cookbook only for lock picking. theres also the fact that no-one onthe site wants any of their work publishing on a cd like that. so it just cant be made. the cd idea is just about dead.

by **maty68** » 29 Mar 2005 11:29

Get that little baggage lock and toss it in the bin then!

lockpicking CD - help!!

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