SmartKey / SmartCode / SmartScan -- to easy to break-in?

[dlong]

Maybe a few people would be kind enough to answer a few questions about these locks -- I've search and read the posts but didn't find all the details I was looking for.

So my assumption here is that the all three use the same exact design, with the later two adding electronic components. The question is how easy is it to break in locks. By break, I mean

1) non-destructive (picking, no-visible damage, etc.)
and/or
2) destructive (hammer, saw, etc.)

I don't need details, just time-wise. The other assumption here is that the door itself -- hinges?, strike plate, long screws, wrap around, etc. are properly installed ... (by the way, can a kind person point me to a guide on security the entry way with the various hardware?).

The question is in regards to someone wanting to enter a property (single-family home) and not looking to hang-around at the door for 1/2 hour picking it open ....

Thanks,

-d

P.S. Basically, I am hoping to spend $100 per door? Is that reasonable?

[mcm757207]

1) non-destructive (picking, no-visible damage, etc.)
and/or
2) destructive (hammer, saw, etc.)

[...]

P.S. Basically, I am hoping to spend $100 per door? Is that reasonable?

None destructive bypass techniques have been developed for the SmartKey cylinder which allows the attacker to generate a working key in a fairly short amount of time. I would say easily 15 minutes, maybe less with practice.

As for destructive entry, these locks are a joke. Easily forced/drilled etc. Less than 60 seconds in many cases.

If your budget is only $100 per door, focus on a reinforced strike, wrap-around plate, and maybe a slightly heavier duty Schlage deadbolt (standard pin tumbler).

Good locks start at $100 per deadbolt and go up, BiLock is a fairly inexpensive high security option that you might look into.

[FarmerFreak]

None destructive bypass techniques have been developed for the SmartKey cylinder which allows the attacker to generate a working key in a fairly short amount of time. I would say easily 15 minutes, maybe less with practice.

I probably shouldn't say this, because we don't want the discussion here. But someone with practice (me ), can decode these in about a minute, walk to the van (another minute), cut a key (a third minute) and then walk back to open the door (four minutes). To be honest though, most locksmiths tend to use destructive entry on these. Because they either can't do what I can do, or they haven't figured out how yet.

And criminals use crowbars. So having a strong jam is more important.

[dlong]

None destructive bypass techniques have been developed for the SmartKey cylinder which allows the attacker to generate a working key in a fairly short amount of time. I would say easily 15 minutes, maybe less with practice.

As for destructive entry, these locks are a joke. Easily forced/drilled etc. Less than 60 seconds in many cases.

< 1 minute is too insecure. Can they be upgraded? I'm really looking for the convenience of an electronic lock. Basically the SmartCode, SmartScan, or the Schlage BE365.

If your budget is only $100 per door, focus on a reinforced strike, wrap-around plate, and maybe a slightly heavier duty Schlage deadbolt (standard pin tumbler).

Good locks start at $100 per deadbolt and go up, BiLock is a fairly inexpensive high security option that you might look into.

* What if we increase the amount to $150 per door?
* Can you cite a few Schlage deadbolt models (would they happen to be available at Home Depot?)?
* I looked at BiLock and I see that they have a Schlage Removable Core Format... do you know which Schlage models the bilock cylinders (?) would fit?
* Are all wrap-around plate the same?

I probably shouldn't say this, because we don't want the discussion here. But someone with practice (me ), can decode these in about a minute, walk to the van (another minute), cut a key (a third minute) and then walk back to open the door (four minutes). To be honest though, most locksmiths tend to use destructive entry on these. Because they either can't do what I can do, or they haven't figured out how yet.

Okay, 4-5 minutes is pretty short (might be long to a criminal) but I think 10+ minutes would be more of what I consider the safe "call the police by the neighbors" time period. So I guess these SmartKey, SmartCode, and SmartScan are out? Unless they can be upgraded?

And criminals use crowbars. So having a strong jam is more important.

I did a google search and the door jam that comes up are steel bars that prop the door closed.

-d

P.S. I'm not sure what the etiquette for topics, should I be starting a new topic... ?

[FarmerFreak]

Okay, 4-5 minutes is pretty short (might be long to a criminal) but I think 10+ minutes would be more of what I consider the safe "call the police by the neighbors" time period.

You really shouldn't compare what the people on this forum can do with what a criminal can do. Don't get me wrong it is certainly possible, but it isn't really plausible that a criminal can do these things anywhere near as fast as the people on this forum. That is assuming of course that a criminal can even do this, which is very unlikely to begin with. Keep in mind that a criminal isn't going to spend the time to learn a slower way of getting through the door, it's not like they care if they break something.

* Can you cite a few Schlage deadbolt models (would they happen to be available at Home Depot?)?
* I looked at BiLock and I see that they have a Schlage Removable Core Format... do you know which Schlage models the bilock cylinders (?) would fit?

Unfortunately I'm not very familiar with the BiLock, but I'm almost certain that Home Depot wouldn't have any that accept the removable core format. You should look for a BiLock dealer and ask them what you will need.

[mcm757207]

Honestly, in the price range you are looking for you are going to be trading the convenience of an electric lock with the security of a good high security one.

This is an excellent deadbolt for a pretty good price:

https://securitysnobs.com/BiLock-Double ... dbolt.html

Wrap around plates are fairly universal, but are dependent on the thickness of the door and the backset of the lock (and also the closeness of the knobset and deadbolt in some cases).

[unlisted]

You cannot go cheap if you want electronic locks. Most every lock that is electronic with a price tag under $400.00 will be very insecure at some point.

Just go get a high security lock- and don't look at big box stores, those are not "high security" in reality.

Brands to look for:

Abloy
Bilock
Medeco

Also, (as someone else mentioned) reinforcing the door frame, strike plate, replacing the screws in the frame, using solid security door, will go a long way to forced entry if you are worried about that. (and you really should not be worried about someone picking your door lock, that is very rare in the real (common) criminal world)

Oh, and get a dog. A big one- that loves to bark when someone steps onto your property.

[UEDan]

Oh, and get a dog. A big one- that loves to bark when someone steps onto your property.

And a small one! The smaller they are the feistier they are.

[globallockytoo]

Honestly, in the price range you are looking for you are going to be trading the convenience of an electric lock with the security of a good high security one.

This is an excellent deadbolt for a pretty good price:

https://securitysnobs.com/BiLock-Double ... dbolt.html

Wrap around plates are fairly universal, but are dependent on the thickness of the door and the backset of the lock (and also the closeness of the knobset and deadbolt in some cases).

That is a good price. They must be trying to start a price war with me.

I'm a little concerned at their describing of the "emergency key". They are simply master keying the inner cylinder and providing an extra key.

the fact that they mention about local laws regarding fire regulations, irrespective, still makes them liable if an emergency situation occurs on the door that they recommended the double cylinder for.

I believe they call it Negligent Homicide and manslaughter is the typical conviction. The solution? Only recommend double cylinder locks for non-primary entrances.

[LocksmithArmy]

Oh, and get a dog. A big one- that loves to bark when someone steps onto your property.

And a small one! The smaller they are the feistier they are.

Are you suggesting that a chihuahua or a poodle is seriously going to outrun a great dane or german sheapord... pit or boxer... I must disagree bro...

sorry totally off topic

[Jaakko]

the fact that they mention about local laws regarding fire regulations, irrespective, still makes them liable if an emergency situation occurs on the door that they recommended the double cylinder for.

I believe they call it Negligent Homicide and manslaughter is the typical conviction. The solution? Only recommend double cylinder locks for non-primary entrances.

The seller is not liable in the case that the customer has been informed to check the legality of installing that lock on his/her door.

I'm just happy we don't have that "I sue you" culture in here. If you are so freaking dumb to install against the law, it is your problem, not anyone elses

[UEDan]

Oh, and get a dog. A big one- that loves to bark when someone steps onto your property.

And a small one! The smaller they are the feistier they are.

Are you suggesting that a chihuahua or a poodle is seriously going to outrun a great dane or german sheapord... pit or boxer... I must disagree bro...

sorry totally off topic

I know its off topic but...My western history teacher has a 120+ lb great dane, nicest dog you'll ever meet. My old mechanic has a HUGE lab, second nicest dog you'll ever meet. My girlfriend has a toy poodle, first time I met her, she attacked me. My neighbor's chihuahua, bit my mom in the butt for no reason. No joke.

Thats why I said and a small one. And they're feistier, thats it.

[LocksmithArmy]

I mis understood, I thought you ment faster, but I would agree with feistier
my bad

[globallockytoo]

the fact that they mention about local laws regarding fire regulations, irrespective, still makes them liable if an emergency situation occurs on the door that they recommended the double cylinder for.

I believe they call it Negligent Homicide and manslaughter is the typical conviction. The solution? Only recommend double cylinder locks for non-primary entrances.

The seller is not liable in the case that the customer has been informed to check the legality of installing that lock on his/her door.

I'm just happy we don't have that "I sue you" culture in here. If you are so freaking dumb to install against the law, it is your problem, not anyone elses

Whereas common sense might dictate as to your thinking, the facts remain, that if you, as a locksmith or security appraiser recommends the installation of double cylinder locks, you alone remain secondarily responsible for any consequences that "might" occur as a result of your recommendations, if they might be applied.

Ultimate responsibility remains the onus of the owner of the building, but if they were to say that "such and such recommended" installation, the authorities might have something to question you over.

[unlisted]

IF were on the discussion on double keyed deadbolt- If I was to install one, I would secuerly fasten it to a chain, hanging out of the doors reach (so someone could not smash the door front window, grab the key and unlock.)

Having that key on the chain or small aircraft cable wire which is able to easily reach the door lock, would be okay. (basically beside my front door, there is a small landing, and a door frame leading to the living room. We screwed the top of the cable to the inside of the living room door frame, and it can easily reach the front door lock from the inside. (if someone smashed the window, the cable and key is not even visible and still physically out of reach.