Master Lock #3

[Puzzles101]

I am a complete noob to picking. I bought what is considered a good place to start, a #3 master lock. I have a set of picks and tension wrenches. I am being fairly light with the tension wrench and when I loosen the wrench I can hear 1, 2 sometimes 3 pins drop but can't get the lock to open I am using the half hook (I think). I want to continue to SPP, I do not want to get frustrated and rake to prevent bad habits. I am not sure as to how high the pin must be pushed I might be pushing too high or not high enough, or how to distinguish between pins that are set and those that are not set. Also am unsure about the force I am using, not sure if the pick got jammed up or I am using too much force but it has the ever so slightest bend in it. Any advice would be much appreciated. I am not giving up here! This is pretty neat and would like to develope my skills with some practice.

[lock2006]

Hi Puzzles101 don't give up yet just keep on trying and practicing and try differents locks
also try kwiset lock and Master #1 try differents picks too
like dimond pick,is easy to get frustrated one thing that everyone go thru
but like i said just keep on practice and practice it will come
this link may help you good luck.


viewtopic.php?t=10677

[Solomon]

How many clicks you hear when you release tension isn't the number of pins which set

You need to identify the binding pin, push it slowly till it clicks into place, then repeat for the next binding pin until it opens. Simple in theory, but when you're first starting out you're not gonna have the feel for it and your fingers aren't doing everything naturally like a more experienced person would be. Keep at it and don't get frustrated, you will get there. I still have my first ever lock which is a no. 3, and for the longest time I could only rake it open. You just need to be patient and think about it logically.

If you're not sure which pin is binding, try the rear pin. When the very back pin is the first to bind, it can feel just like the back of the lock, and this can be understandably confusing for a new picker. It may also help to push each pin indivually without any tension at first, then apply tension and feel for the difference. That binding pin will stick out like a sore thumb, trust me

If you can't feel any binding, try a little more tension. Just make sure that when setting the first pin, it moves without too much resistance. You wanna feel it drag a little, but if you're having to really push on the pin to get it to move, then you need to take the tension down until it goes easier. Remember it's not about force... you're keeping the tension to a reasonable amount, preferably as low as you can get away with, and slowly pushing each pin into place in the order they bind.

I just picked my no. 3 and the binding order is 4-1-3-2. Yours will be different, but the feedback etc should be the same as long as it isn't all gunked up. The binding is nice and obvious, sets are very crisp and you get a nice pang in the wrench as the last pin sets aswell. You'll have it cracked in no time, just pay attention to what she's telling you

[ckc123]

I have a few master #3's and I find them very "sloppy" in the fit of the cores.. it's hard to get a good feeling on a set pin.

try another lock type/model and then get back to the #3 when you feel ready for a challenge.

[Solomon]

I have a few master #3's and I find them very "sloppy" in the fit of the cores.. it's hard to get a good feeling on a set pin.

try another lock type/model and then get back to the #3 when you feel ready for a challenge.

The cores are very loose and do rattle around, but it's not really an issue if you ask me. The relationship between the plug and the shell is what matters, whether the core is loose or not makes no odds as it stays nice and steady under tension anyway. It's not like you set a pin and it starts going mental and jumping around. Don't be discouraged, they're easy peasy.

[ckc123]

, they're easy peasy.

it's weird.. I had one of them that I could open easily a few weeks ago, but since then, no luck what so ever in getting it open. It was a set of 3 (so I have two others), and I saw that they had no "security pins" (from the sticky thread) and I I was getting so frustrated that I decided to open one of them to see what was going on. No security pins. This one is frustrating me.. I can seem to get a bit of feedback from the first pin (3rd pin) but I don't get any rotation. after that nothing..
I'm going to try with more tension tonight to see what I get..

[Solomon]

it's weird.. I had one of them that I could open easily a few weeks ago, but since then, no luck what so ever in getting it open. It was a set of 3 (so I have two others), and I saw that they had no "security pins" (from the sticky thread) and I I was getting so frustrated that I decided to open one of them to see what was going on. No security pins. This one is frustrating me.. I can seem to get a bit of feedback from the first pin (3rd pin) but I don't get any rotation. after that nothing..
I'm going to try with more tension tonight to see what I get..

I'd say the most likely thing is that either pin 1 or 2 is oversetting as pin 3 sets, and that's why you're not getting binding on anything else after that... check the bitting on the key, one or both of those cuts will probably be quite deep compared to 3 and if that's the case then it's definitely an oversetting problem.

Even if they're all keyed alike and you can open a couple but not that one, the binding order in each lock will be different and that's a pretty big factor when it comes to oversetting pins.

Ideally you wanna avoid this in the first place but if it does happen, you can release tension very carefully to drop that overset pin. You'll either catch it at the shear line as it drops, or it'll just reset so you can set it as normal after that. If you can't avoid oversetting it, ie. it's happening as you try to set pins behind it afterwards, you'll need to switch to TOK tension (if you aren't already) and maybe try a deeper hook to get under it.

[ckc123]

actually pin 1 and 2 are very "high" (1-2) and I can see the driver pin as well as the key pin in the front of the lock.. so 1-2 are not oversetting (I'm assuming)..

like you mentioned I think it's over setting the pins that is causing me the trouble.. I'm going to try a few variations in pressure to see if I can find a "sweet spot" for this lock.

[Puzzles101]

Thanks everyone for the helpful hints. Went back to reading and will tackle it again tomorrow.

[raimundo]

everything solomon said,

and, when you pick, is the tensor going to fall out when you release tension? if your tensor blade is stuck between the plug and the cylinder wall at the bottom of the keyway, you are not going to succeed in opening the lock
the tensor should just fall out when tension is released.

if you bind the plug and cylinderwall like this, you can also erode a slot in the bottom of the cylinder wall that is a very effective anti picking feature that wasn't there previously. if this feature is some day designed in, we will all just be putting a roller bearing or the end of a paper clip there to make it stop binding and the tensor on top of it.

before your tensor gets to the plug, it passes the lamination that holds the core in the lock. the tensor blade will touch this rough cut/break edge (punch presses cut in until the metal fractures through leaving a rough edge)
you will probably see roughening along the edge of your tensor blade where this is happening. it cant help your feel to have this happening, but its good to be aware of it.
drop tension frequently and be sure your tensor is never jammed

[bborski]

Hi all im just getting into this little hobby and am already seeing some frustration with this particular lock as well. i read that it is a good place to start but for the life of me i just cant get it. i have a pick set i ordered for southord and have been successful in picking some other locks i have around the house, managed to get a master #5 once (pretty much on accident) havnt had any joy since. never once got the #3. i have read and read, i have studied the keys that came with the locks, ive tried spp, raking, just getting angry and wiggling the pick chaotically (obviously i know this wont help). im stuck. help. thanks

[Solomon]

Hi all im just getting into this little hobby and am already seeing some frustration with this particular lock as well. i read that it is a good place to start but for the life of me i just cant get it. i have a pick set i ordered for southord and have been successful in picking some other locks i have around the house, managed to get a master #5 once (pretty much on accident) havnt had any joy since. never once got the #3. i have read and read, i have studied the keys that came with the locks, ive tried spp, raking, just getting angry and wiggling the pick chaotically (obviously i know this wont help). im stuck. help. thanks

Start by reading my posts earlier in this thread, all you need to do is practice. If you really really can't get it, please give details other than "it won't open". A picture of the key will tell us if it's the bitting, for example. Does the key operate the lock smoothly? How are you tensioning it and which pick are you using? Give us as much detail as you possibly can. You wouldn't phone your ISP, tell them your internet doesn't work, then they immediately know what the problem is and tell you a quick fix... same with this.

[bborski]

I too have tried cw and ccw,using various rakes and picks. I feel what I think is a binding pin and push on it but never get any feedback. it seems once I think I have "set" a pin all the other pins give me nothing, they are springy and offer no resistance

[femurat]

you overset a pin. now three of us told you that
don't go mental about it, just release tension and start again.

Cheers

[femurat]

I just realized you're not the OP, forget the three of us telling you the same thing. but the over set pin remains